Jose Offerman punches Ump

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by hootrgibson

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Welcome aboard hootrgibson. Although, I can't shake the feeling we've met before.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should.

As do the rest of us mere mortals you insist on insulting.

Originally Posted by Ump153

I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess? Awfully full of yourself, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Ump153

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel.

I always feel like I need a shower after reading your posts.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As do the rest of us

Not true, Steve. There are some who insist that how they would handle it as amatuers is how DJ should have handled it.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess?

Anyone could understand Steve. Some have chosen not to.

I'll repeat for the final time. Those of us who believe DJ handled the situation appropriately for his level and circumstance have never argued that this would work at all levels. However, those who believe their approach is superior suggest it should be used at all levels.

Which side is really being intolerant?

And, I thought we had gotten beyond the insults, Steve.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It's just your blatant cockiness that fuels my distaste for most of your posts. You may not mean to, but somehow you come across as some big shot umpiring guru, or expert authority on the subject, and that you have a special understanding that the rest of us unwashed masses don't. I am sure I'm not alone on an island by saying this. Most people are just way too polite to say it to you. When people who freely speak their mind, like Larry or myself speak, we are speaking for others who just keep silent. I'm sure you're a great guy in real life, you just seem really cocky and condescending in many of your posts here.

[Ump153]

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

Larry is the genuine article. You can choose to dismiss his long history involving the game of baseball, but having had a great many private conversations with him, I have found that he is not exaggerating, but in fact being modest in not revealing his sources. His posts come from a desire to share what he knows about certain baseball topics, and I've never seen him do it in a mean-spirited, condescending manner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Wow. What video were you watching? DJ got between his partner and the manager as is supposed to. You can even see him trying to "shoo" away his partner. Jose was the agressive party, not DJ

I suppose that works in Midvale. I'll be sure to recommend it to DJ next time I see him.

Very condescending remark.

Originally Posted by Ump153

We are obviously seeing the video with different eyes and different backgrounds,

What background would that be? Do you have superior training than the rest of us? Doubtful.

Originally Posted by Ump153

High school umpires have no business passing judgment on DJ in this incident.

Many of us so-called "high school" umpires have tons more "real life" umpiring (not to mention general baseball) experience than do most younger "5 weeks of pro school and a little bit of minor league baseball experience" have. You really can't believe that 5 years in the minors is more experienced than 25 or 30 years doing HS, college, and adult baseball, day in-day out.

Originally Posted by Ump153

Oh, God. Another one of those. Got your gi on?

Yes I can see just from this exchange how superior your technique is. Already I've stopped thinking of you as the complete fool you are.

Wow, you're right. You've difused everything.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oops. Sorry, Sensei.

God, how very condescending, not to mention rude.

Originally Posted by Ump153

Tell us, Sensei, where have you been successful in handling Jose Offerman, or any professional hothead with a record of violence for that matter? Oklahoma? Georgia? Illinois? Venezuela? Dominican Republic, Portland?

You are the one touting your successes. Give us specifics. DJ's record is open for review by all. Put yourself on equal footing. Tell us how you handled the brawling coaches at Linfield and George Fox.

Again, that phony-a$$ed superiority shines through like the sun.

Originally Posted by umpref

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

Yes, it is very similar. Then he chose to shout it at you like you were a 5 year-old. Very classy.

Originally Posted by Ump153

I should have said: "You were never there."

None of your training or experience has involved this situation. If you believe all situations can be handled alike, you are either naive or a fool.

Shortly after moving down here, I met a cop who works in South Central. During one conversation I mentioned "vebal judo". He said, "We have name for cops who use verbal judo around here...deceased."

Nothing works everytime, every place. That's my point. You have no knowledge, or experience that indicates what you think you would have done would have worked any better. That's my point. You are free to suggest that you would handled it differenty, but you are wrong in making any claims to success in a situation you did not handle. That is my point.

Stick to your pussycats.

Yeah, he doesn't have that "special" knowledge and training that you have, huh?

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

"Hate spewing"???

You're not serious, are you?

Sadly, that's the arrogant "pro umpire" stance. We're just a bunch of Charlies that don't know sh*t from shinola about umpiring. If we dare to disagree, we are spewing hate.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You understand why?

How?

Remember, it's out of 154.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Some people, like one of this guy's defenders, seem to require experience under specific conditions and circumstances to gain any value from the experience.

Others, like you and me, require only life's general experiences to shape our approach to people in any situation---especially a tense one.

And we're not just high school umpires, nor do we call on only our umpiring skills and experience to manage people in tense situations. That's why we are successful in managing people on whatever level we work, and at whatever capacity in life.

Very well stated.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You may not mean to, but somehow you come across as some big shot umpiring guru, or expert authority on the subject, and that you have a special understanding that the rest of us unwashed masses don't.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Pot, meet kettle!

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It's just your blatant cockiness that fuels my distaste for most of your posts. You may not mean to, but somehow you come across as some big shot umpiring guru, or expert authority on the subject, and that you have a special understanding that the rest of us unwashed masses don't. I am sure I'm not alone on an island by saying this. Most people are just way too polite to say it to you. When people who freely speak their mind, like Larry or myself speak, we are speaking for others who just keep silent. I'm sure you're a great guy in real life, you just seem really cocky and condescending in many of your posts here.

I can promise you. I'll be one of the silent polite ones.
I try to stick with what I am talking about and not the person I am talking to.

As for this topic, in general, I think Finnerty is right in that this is not how to handle a situation.

I think what happened is both were heated and DJ said the wrong thing(thinking he was dealing with a sane person but he was wrong). For MLB and maybe MiLB, this is fine b/c it is part of the show at that level. For this Dominican league, it was not apparently or at least DJ didn't realize how pathetic Offerman is.

If DJ could have kept his feet after the contact, he should have. He was lucky that others acted quickly to help prevent Offerman from doing any more damage. He didn't have to go down to get Offerman suspended. That should have come automatically.

It was wise of them to leave the tournament. Let the locals deal with that. I hope they find it very difficult to cover things properly and would come to value the American umpires and what they are doing more. I doubt it though.

Maybe DJ confused how to handle a MLB/MiLB manager with how to handle a non-MLB/MiLB manager. It is possible that he didn't realize the level he was dealing with and should have approached it differently. That is a possibility as well. DJ might have been in the wrong here or it is just an isolated incident in which he was dealing with a moron and didn't realize it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Ump153

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

Don't use quotes when you are making up what you're writing.

You have proven time and again where your level of knowledge of the game of baseball stops.

And just so you know, ballplayer is one word.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Larry is the genuine article. You can choose to dismiss his long history involving the game of baseball, but having had a great many private conversations with him, I have found that he is not exaggerating, but in fact being modest in not revealing his sources. His posts come from a desire to share what he knows about certain baseball topics, and I've never seen him do it in a mean-spirited, condescending manner.

I was convinced of Finnerty's level of expertise when he argued endlessly that ejections were never necessary and how proud he was the he had never, in all his years, ejectected anyone. Then after a few months he, he flipped flopped 180 degrees.

Yes, he is certainly the genuine article.

SanDiegoSteve, you can stand up for anyone you want. But don't so readily dismiss those whose work you do not know.

Personally, I am suspicious of posters who fee the need to blow their own horns so loudly, but since I discovered the ignore feature, I am exposed to one fewer of those.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I flipped 180 degrees?

No, I ran a guy who tried to assault me when I confined him to the dugout. It happened to come a short time after the discussion you cite.

Isolated example that changed nothing in my approach, which has been uniformly successful since then. So, your overly simplistic summary is wrong.

[Durham]

Who is running the pool on how long this will go on and how much are the squares, I might buy a few.

Everyone should take something from this, I for one prayed that I never am on the field with an idiot like that when the cameras are rolling, b/c Youtube is bad and I would just as soon stay off of it.

As far as how DJ handled it, I have not disected the video, I saw it while running on the treadmill at the gym on ESPN. I support DJ b/c he is a friend, we went to umpire school together and got jobs together and now I work with him in the PCL a few times a year. He knows what he is doing and how to umpire.

I don't think he was over agressive, but if he was and he made a mistake then so what it happens. Let it go guys.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Durham

Who is running the pool on how long this will go on and how much are the squares, I might buy a few.

Everyone should take something from this, I for one prayed that I never am on the field with an idiot like that when the cameras are rolling, b/c Youtube is bad and I would just as soon stay off of it.

As far as how DJ handled it, I have not disected the video, I saw it while running on the treadmill at the gym on ESPN. I support DJ b/c he is a friend, we went to umpire school together and got jobs together and now I work with him in the PCL a few times a year. He knows what he is doing and how to umpire.

I don't think he was over agressive, but if he was and he made a mistake then so what it happens. Let it go guys.

For the record, I support the guy as an umpire, and I assume he's a very good one, and a good person as you state.

I criticized his performance in an isolated incident, which was subject to our review because it was on video, as you mention. I had only his posturing and movements to go by, as everyone else who was confined to the video.

But you know, Durham, your defense of him is the most reasonable, coherent and acceptable of anyone's.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Excellent post and excellent explanation of the difference in mindset. However, you will find that there are a number of amatuers here that refuse to acknowledge the differences you point out between the progame and what they call. And some who will relunctantly accept the difference , will then blather on about how it shouldn't be different. (kind of like saying "yeah the sky is blue, but it really should be purple.")

Only in officiating have I run into so many amateurs who truly believe they are superior to the professionals of the trade.

Pro Guys, when one of your own screws the pooch, you just have to say it is wrong. Like it or not, keep quiet if you can't handle it. Two members of that crew didn't handle a situation very well. You saw nothing wrong in the video, really?

Why was the star catcher ejected? The party line states he was arguing balls and strikes. Not what I saw on video. That catcher was facing the pitcher six feet in front of the plate. Learn how to properly eject a guy. At least let the offender know he will not be ejected while his back is turned away from the umpire.

The only hate comments I see in this thread are directed toward the quality of the game down south. Bull hockey. The 2nd ump did a good job of separating his partner from the conflict. But it wasn't his boat to paddle either. So he caught the short end of the stick. He'll get over it and won't make the same mistakes the next time.

Neither ump handled the argument very well. JMOHO!