Jose Offerman punches Ump

[runem]

Professional baseball is to amateur baseball as roller skates are to an f-16, They both could be called similar insomuch as they are both forms of transportation; common sense highlights the extreme differences, not the similarities. It would be stupid to place my seven year old in the cockpit based on his winning a race at the school roller rink party. Verbal judo is garbage you only hear those amateur umpires, who subscribe to the "we work for them" thinking, talk about. Professional baseball is a COMPLETELY different game altogether. Pleasing "coaches" and ad's is survival in high school and college baseball. Attempting to appease professional MANAGERS not only will not work, it will cause you, your crew, and all other umpires in the league, even bigger and more frequent ****storms. In professional baseball, the objective is not always, and never singularly, to avoid an ejection. Sometimes your job is, simply, to facilitate the argument and subsequent ejection. (this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by umpref

I like how these conversations always turn into the regulars on this site throwing insults at those they disagree with. LOL

You mean like this one?

Originally Posted by umpref

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by runem

Professional baseball is to amateur baseball as roller skates are to an f-16, They both could be called similar insomuch as they are both forms of transportation; common sense highlights the extreme differences, not the similarities. It would be stupid to place my seven year old in the cockpit based on his winning a race at the school roller rink party. Verbal judo is garbage you only hear those amateur umpires, who subscribe to the "we work for them" thinking, talk about. Professional baseball is a COMPLETELY different game altogether. Pleasing "coaches" and ad's is survival in high school and college baseball. Attempting to appease professional MANAGERS not only will not work, it will cause you, your crew, and all other umpires in the league, even bigger and more frequent ****storms. In professional baseball, the objective is not always, and never singularly, to avoid an ejection. Sometimes your job is, simply, to facilitate the argument and subsequent ejection. (this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

Those of you who confine his poor handling and inflaming of Offerman to a Dominican baseball situation and not a human relations situation are failing to understand how an inflamed human being should be handled.

And flopping on his @ss from a phantom punch in the middle of a brawl is part of handling it "near-perfectly"?? Wow! What would perfect handling be? He not only inflamed the situation, he subjected himself to a serious kicking by going down that way. It was borderline ridiculous.

I love that cool blue type by the way. Very soothing.

[JJ]

I did notice this morning that Offerman got the death penalty in the D.R.
He earned it.

JJ

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

And flopping on his @ss from a phantom punch in the middle of a brawl is part of handling it "near-perfectly"?? Wow! What would perfect handling be? He not only inflamed the situation, he subjected himself to a serious kicking by going down that way. It was borderline ridiculous.

If you watch the second video that was posted which was shot from a different angle, you will see that Jose made contact with DJ's chest with his hand and forearm, pushing DJ backwards.

Nothing phantom about it.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by runem

Professional baseball is to amateur baseball as roller skates are to an f-16, They both could be called similar insomuch as they are both forms of transportation; common sense highlights the extreme differences, not the similarities. It would be stupid to place my seven year old in the cockpit based on his winning a race at the school roller rink party. Verbal judo is garbage you only hear those amateur umpires, who subscribe to the "we work for them" thinking, talk about. Professional baseball is a COMPLETELY different game altogether. Pleasing "coaches" and ad's is survival in high school and college baseball. Attempting to appease professional MANAGERS not only will not work, it will cause you, your crew, and all other umpires in the league, even bigger and more frequent ****storms. In professional baseball, the objective is not always, and never singularly, to avoid an ejection. Sometimes your job is, simply, to facilitate the argument and subsequent ejection. (this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

Excellent post and excellent explanation of the difference in mindset. However, you will find that there are a number of amatuers here that refuse to acknowledge the differences you point out between the progame and what they call. And some who will relunctantly accept the difference , will then blather on about how it shouldn't be different. (kind of like saying "yeah the sky is blue, but it really should be purple.")

Only in officiating have I run into so many amateurs who truly believe they are superior to the professionals of the trade.

[Kevin Finnerty]

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

Runem:

See what I mean?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

[hootrgibson]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by runem

(this IS NOT what happened in this particular case by the way- DJ handled it near-perfectly) Those of you who think you have a better answer fail to understand the question altogether. This doesn't make you a better or worse umpire than those in professional baseball, it simply makes you an apple running your mouth about life in the orange grove.

Near-perfectly?

Maybe at the Pro level "near-perfect" is good enough but, for us low life simple minded "apple" amateur's, wellllll I myself, tend to strive for a level just higher than that. So please get off your high-horse.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by hootrgibson

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Welcome to the site hoot. I'm sure we can learn a lot from your experience.

I must have missed something in this thread. I just re-read each post and I fail to find a single reference to a poster claiming to be a professional. What I see are a couple individuals familiar with why DJ handled the incident as he did suggesting that there are times things are appropriately handled differently in the pros. And I see some others who insist that they way they handle things in the amateurs is the way things should be handle in all of baseball.

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should. This doesn't make either pro umpire or amateur umpire universally correct, but neither does it make either of them wrong at their particular level.

I'm sure you handle some things at the D-1 conference level differently than someone might at the 12 yr youth level. I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

I really don't believe either pro or amateur can claim a "one size fits all" approach.

Again, welcome to the site.

[Kevin Finnerty]

You understand why?

How?