Jose Offerman punches Ump

[Kevin Finnerty]

Judging him and putting his actions in one specific incident under a microscope are vastly different.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by umpref

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

Really? In that case I'll speak up and use shorter sentences so you can get it.

Oregon is not the Dominican Republic. Geoff Loomis is not Jose Offerman. You were not there.

Loud enough?

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Really? In that case I'll speak up and use shorter sentences so you can get it.

Oregon is not the Dominican Republic. Geoff Loomis is not Jose Offerman. You were not there.

Loud enough?

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes. I got to watch the umpire use aggressive posturing, gang up techniques, and down right challenging postures. I got to see umpires losing control by yelling back at the person yelling at them.

These are all bad ideas in ANY culture, ANY sport, and with ANY official!

Is it so hard to admit that professional umpires have a poor way of handling situations that usually lead to escalation? Indeed, many amateur umpires do that same thing, and it usually leads to similar results.

Geoff Loomis is a pussycat! Scott Carnahan on the other hand!

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by umpref

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes.

I should have said: "You were never there."

None of your training or experience has involved this situation. If you believe all situations can be handled alike, you are either naive or a fool.

Shortly after moving down here, I met a cop who works in South Central. During one conversation I mentioned "vebal judo". He said, "We have name for cops who use verbal judo around here...deceased."

Nothing works everytime, every place. That's my point. You have no knowledge, or experience that indicates what you think you would have done would have worked any better. That's my point. You are free to suggest that you would handled it differenty, but you are wrong in making any claims to success in a situation you did not handle. That is my point.

Stick to your pussycats.

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Ump153

I should have said: "You were never there."

None of your training or experience has involved this situation. If you believe all situations can be handled alike, you are either naive or a fool.

Shortly after moving down here, I met a cop who works in South Central. During one conversation I mentioned "vebal judo". He said, "We have name for cops who use verbal judo around here...deceased."

Nothing works everytime, every place. That's my point. You have no knowledge, or experience that indicates what you think you would have done would have worked any better. That's my point. You are free to suggest that you would handled it differenty, but you are wrong in making any claims to success in a situation you did not handle. That is my point.

Stick to your pussycats.

I HAVE been in similar situations, with volatile people. Verbal Judo is ONE technique that works in many cases. But, just plain old common sense in how you present yourself works EVERYWHERE!

If you posture aggressively towards somebody who is already pissed, you increase the chances of escalating the situation MANY MORE TIMES than by using neutral body language. Also, shouting back at somebody shouting at you almost always cause them to shout back at you, instead of talking in normal tones.

Tell me, who was in control of that confrontation? It CERTAINLY wasn't the umpires. IF the goal is to diffuse the situation, they didn't just about everything wrong in a visual sense. I bet a week's worth of game fee's that if we could hear the audio that these umps said at least a few things that only served to fan the flames.

I tamed my lions into pussycats. I took it upon myself to do so.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by umpref

I HAVE been in similar situations, with volatile people.

Really? Tell us who, then. Name the individual who has attacked players with bats an punched umpires with whom you worked. Tell us the stadiums in foreign countries where you did not speak the language and were the security people wouldn't escort the home manager off the field.

You just cannot admit, as almost all of the rest of here will do willingly, that you have never been in the situation DJ found himself. And, as in Oregon, you are one of maybe two here who continues to insist that you can do something you've never had to do better than those who have.

I tamed my lions into pussycats. I took it upon myself to do so.

You are in a very small minority in Portland who believe so.

Believe what you need to get you through the night. And post what you need to convince everyone how good you are. As I've said on the field, "we're just repeating ourselves, skip, time to move on."

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Ump153

You just cannot admit, as almost all of the rest of here will do willingly, that you have never been in the situation DJ found himself.

I have been in that same situation. Can't hit back, can't understand a word of the language, and no security escort out of there. It was with my wife.

[Cub42]

First, thats some nice hate spewing towards pro Umpires. Two, get your facts straight before you rip some of the guys on here who have experience handling these kind of issues. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, But the fact is that handling arguements and ejections at the level that is involved here is not the same as in HS or youth ball. Add in the fact that these guys are working in a totally different enviroment than in Pro ball in the US. They have to have security just to do there job. Finally, the MGR involved here has a very well known history for losing control in these situations. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but before you criticize this crew, take the time to see how things work at their level of baseball

[Kevin Finnerty]

"Hate spewing"???

You're not serious, are you?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by umpref

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes. I got to watch the umpire use aggressive posturing, gang up techniques, and down right challenging postures. I got to see umpires losing control by yelling back at the person yelling at them.

These are all bad ideas in ANY culture, ANY sport, and with ANY official!

Is it so hard to admit that professional umpires have a poor way of handling situations that usually lead to escalation? Indeed, many amateur umpires do that same thing, and it usually leads to similar results.

Geoff Loomis is a pussycat! Scott Carnahan on the other hand!

Good Lord....

Did they kick you out as a moderator at the JJ HUddle site?

[umpref]

I like how these conversations always turn into the regulars on this site throwing insults at those they disagree with. LOL

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Cub42

Finally, the MGR involved here has a very well known history for losing control in these situations.

You know your in a dungeon and you know the dragon has a heated temper, and you STILL insist on pis**ng him off.

This official may be experienced, but he still lacks wisdom.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by jicecone

You know your in a dungeon and you know the dragon has a heated temper, and you STILL insist on pis**ng him off.

This official may be experienced, but he still lacks wisdom.

Hmmm have you ever met DJ?? I have and I have to strongly disagree with you!! Pro ball is a completly different animal, let alone working in the Dominican. Do you honestly belive Verbal Judo would have worked on Earl Weaver? I don't, not even a little. In the video DJ crosses his arms to maintain his distance, then Offerman appears to bump him, then hits him. We don't know what was said, to me it looks like DJ is trying to do his job..correctly. I would go to war anyday with DJ. Offerman is just an idiot, unfortunately at DJ's expense.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Hmmm have you ever met DJ?? I have and I have to strongly disagree with you!! Pro ball is a completly different animal, let alone working in the Dominican. Do you honestly belive Verbal Judo would have worked on Earl Weaver? I don't, not even a little. In the video DJ crosses his arms to maintain his distance, then Offerman appears to bump him, then hits him. We don't know what was said, to me it looks like DJ is trying to do his job..correctly. I would go to war anyday with DJ. Offerman is just an idiot, unfortunately at DJ's expense.

No, I never met the fellow but, I am sure he is an excellent official and outstanding human being. As far as Offerman, a lifetime suspension for this scumbag was a light sentence. Criminal charges are more in line here.

Having said that, I still think for this incident , wisdom, could have been better applied.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No, I never met the fellow but, I am sure he is an excellent official and outstanding human being. As far as Offerman, a lifetime suspension for this scumbag was a light sentence. Criminal charges are more in line here.

A lifetime suspension in DR is probably shorter than Jim Valvano's lifetime contract at NCState.