Jose Offerman punches Ump

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

[hootrgibson]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by hootrgibson

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Welcome to the site hoot. I'm sure we can learn a lot from your experience.

I must have missed something in this thread. I just re-read each post and I fail to find a single reference to a poster claiming to be a professional. What I see are a couple individuals familiar with why DJ handled the incident as he did suggesting that there are times things are appropriately handled differently in the pros. And I see some others who insist that they way they handle things in the amateurs is the way things should be handle in all of baseball.

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should. This doesn't make either pro umpire or amateur umpire universally correct, but neither does it make either of them wrong at their particular level.

I'm sure you handle some things at the D-1 conference level differently than someone might at the 12 yr youth level. I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

I really don't believe either pro or amateur can claim a "one size fits all" approach.

Again, welcome to the site.

[Kevin Finnerty]

You understand why?

How?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Wow. What video were you watching? DJ got between his partner and the manager as is supposed to. You can even see him trying to "shoo" away his partner. Jose was the agressive party, not DJ

I suppose that works in Midvale. I'll be sure to recommend it to DJ next time I see him.

Very condescending remark.

Originally Posted by Ump153

We are obviously seeing the video with different eyes and different backgrounds,

What background would that be? Do you have superior training than the rest of us? Doubtful.

Originally Posted by Ump153

High school umpires have no business passing judgment on DJ in this incident.

Many of us so-called "high school" umpires have tons more "real life" umpiring (not to mention general baseball) experience than do most younger "5 weeks of pro school and a little bit of minor league baseball experience" have. You really can't believe that 5 years in the minors is more experienced than 25 or 30 years doing HS, college, and adult baseball, day in-day out.

Originally Posted by Ump153

Oh, God. Another one of those. Got your gi on?

Yes I can see just from this exchange how superior your technique is. Already I've stopped thinking of you as the complete fool you are.

Wow, you're right. You've difused everything.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oops. Sorry, Sensei.

God, how very condescending, not to mention rude.

Originally Posted by Ump153

Tell us, Sensei, where have you been successful in handling Jose Offerman, or any professional hothead with a record of violence for that matter? Oklahoma? Georgia? Illinois? Venezuela? Dominican Republic, Portland?

You are the one touting your successes. Give us specifics. DJ's record is open for review by all. Put yourself on equal footing. Tell us how you handled the brawling coaches at Linfield and George Fox.

Again, that phony-a$$ed superiority shines through like the sun.

Originally Posted by umpref

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

Yes, it is very similar. Then he chose to shout it at you like you were a 5 year-old. Very classy.

Originally Posted by Ump153

I should have said: "You were never there."

None of your training or experience has involved this situation. If you believe all situations can be handled alike, you are either naive or a fool.

Shortly after moving down here, I met a cop who works in South Central. During one conversation I mentioned "vebal judo". He said, "We have name for cops who use verbal judo around here...deceased."

Nothing works everytime, every place. That's my point. You have no knowledge, or experience that indicates what you think you would have done would have worked any better. That's my point. You are free to suggest that you would handled it differenty, but you are wrong in making any claims to success in a situation you did not handle. That is my point.

Stick to your pussycats.

Yeah, he doesn't have that "special" knowledge and training that you have, huh?

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

"Hate spewing"???

You're not serious, are you?

Sadly, that's the arrogant "pro umpire" stance. We're just a bunch of Charlies that don't know sh*t from shinola about umpiring. If we dare to disagree, we are spewing hate.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You understand why?

How?

Remember, it's out of 154.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Some people, like one of this guy's defenders, seem to require experience under specific conditions and circumstances to gain any value from the experience.

Others, like you and me, require only life's general experiences to shape our approach to people in any situation---especially a tense one.

And we're not just high school umpires, nor do we call on only our umpiring skills and experience to manage people in tense situations. That's why we are successful in managing people on whatever level we work, and at whatever capacity in life.

Very well stated.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by hootrgibson

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals... I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Welcome aboard hootrgibson. Although, I can't shake the feeling we've met before.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I flipped 180 degrees?

No, I ran a guy who tried to assault me when I confined him to the dugout. It happened to come a short time after the discussion you cite.

Isolated example that changed nothing in my approach, which has been uniformly successful since then. So, your overly simplistic summary is wrong.

[Durham]

Who is running the pool on how long this will go on and how much are the squares, I might buy a few.

Everyone should take something from this, I for one prayed that I never am on the field with an idiot like that when the cameras are rolling, b/c Youtube is bad and I would just as soon stay off of it.

As far as how DJ handled it, I have not disected the video, I saw it while running on the treadmill at the gym on ESPN. I support DJ b/c he is a friend, we went to umpire school together and got jobs together and now I work with him in the PCL a few times a year. He knows what he is doing and how to umpire.

I don't think he was over agressive, but if he was and he made a mistake then so what it happens. Let it go guys.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Durham

Who is running the pool on how long this will go on and how much are the squares, I might buy a few.

Everyone should take something from this, I for one prayed that I never am on the field with an idiot like that when the cameras are rolling, b/c Youtube is bad and I would just as soon stay off of it.

As far as how DJ handled it, I have not disected the video, I saw it while running on the treadmill at the gym on ESPN. I support DJ b/c he is a friend, we went to umpire school together and got jobs together and now I work with him in the PCL a few times a year. He knows what he is doing and how to umpire.

I don't think he was over agressive, but if he was and he made a mistake then so what it happens. Let it go guys.

For the record, I support the guy as an umpire, and I assume he's a very good one, and a good person as you state.

I criticized his performance in an isolated incident, which was subject to our review because it was on video, as you mention. I had only his posturing and movements to go by, as everyone else who was confined to the video.

But you know, Durham, your defense of him is the most reasonable, coherent and acceptable of anyone's.

[hootrgibson]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Welcome aboard hootrgibson. Although, I can't shake the feeling we've met before.

May have on the Internet, on some far away political blog...or sports blog. The real me was known to have lived in Upstate NY(Rome) in a world and time far away...but that was 1970-73 during my last days in the Air Force and the year after.

Thanks for the Welcome

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should.

As do the rest of us mere mortals you insist on insulting.

Originally Posted by Ump153

I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess? Awfully full of yourself, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Ump153

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel.

I always feel like I need a shower after reading your posts.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As do the rest of us

Not true, Steve. There are some who insist that how they would handle it as amatuers is how DJ should have handled it.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess?

Anyone could understand Steve. Some have chosen not to.

I'll repeat for the final time. Those of us who believe DJ handled the situation appropriately for his level and circumstance have never argued that this would work at all levels. However, those who believe their approach is superior suggest it should be used at all levels.

Which side is really being intolerant?

And, I thought we had gotten beyond the insults, Steve.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It's just your blatant cockiness that fuels my distaste for most of your posts. You may not mean to, but somehow you come across as some big shot umpiring guru, or expert authority on the subject, and that you have a special understanding that the rest of us unwashed masses don't. I am sure I'm not alone on an island by saying this. Most people are just way too polite to say it to you. When people who freely speak their mind, like Larry or myself speak, we are speaking for others who just keep silent. I'm sure you're a great guy in real life, you just seem really cocky and condescending in many of your posts here.

[Ump153]

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

Larry is the genuine article. You can choose to dismiss his long history involving the game of baseball, but having had a great many private conversations with him, I have found that he is not exaggerating, but in fact being modest in not revealing his sources. His posts come from a desire to share what he knows about certain baseball topics, and I've never seen him do it in a mean-spirited, condescending manner.