Rule question

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ODog

Are there any classroom sessions prior to the test date where an interpreter walks aspiring officials through the rules book or is it just show up with a book on test day and release for assignment anyone who passes?

Why would that matter? I've been doing this 20 years and I dig into the rules deeper than most and I still find things that I didn't know occasionally.

For most rookies, they get a lot of stuff wrong even after they've heard it....it is overload. You can find a lot of stuff in the book as you need while taking the test but that doesn't mean they're remember it all on demand.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why would that matter?

Because classes make it significantly less likely you'll have a "certified" official calling 3 seconds on inbounds plays and during shot and rebound attempts. Just offering the exam without any contextual rules/floor training is irresponsible and unfair to local teams who use that pool of officials.

Three seconds is also probably the top myth debunked in a new officials class, the kind of "light bulb" information that makes you say to yourself, "Whoa. That's one to file away."

I know some of you think this is coming from some high-and-mighty douche, but trust me, I know I'm the donk who ruled "back of the backboard" on an inbounds pass that wound up on the court.

I just find it scary and borderline reckless that someone who actually has a rules book, passed a test and is doing games isn't familiar with the 3-second rule -- at all.

That's why I found the whole thread fishy and perhaps a "chain yank" that had gone on too long (insert Manti Te'o joke here).

Once again, I was wrong. So now I'm just curious if classes are available to aspiring officials in seanwestref's area.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ODog

Three seconds is also probably the top myth debunked in a new officials class, the kind of "light bulb" information that makes you say to yourself, "Whoa. That's one to file away."

Curious as to the specifics of the "myth" as taught in your class.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Curious as to the specifics of the "myth" as taught in your class.

As you know all too well from the jackals in the stands, it seems a large number of people think a three-second violation is for standing in the lane for 3 seconds, without regard to the location of the ball or who has control of it.

And even when you finally explain it to "that coach" who just decides to yell "three seconds" indiscriminately, you tend to get the "OK, I didn't realilze that. Thank you."

And now we know even working officials who have passed a test also subscribe to the myth.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ODog

Because classes make it significantly less likely you'll have a "certified" official calling 3 seconds on inbounds plays and during shot and rebound attempts. Just offering the exam without any contextual rules/floor training is irresponsible and unfair to local teams who use that pool of officials.

Three seconds is also probably the top myth debunked in a new officials class, the kind of "light bulb" information that makes you say to yourself, "Whoa. That's one to file away."

FYI, I teach those classes in my area.

You have to consider that you get a wide variety of people that want to be officials....from someone who barely knows the basketball is round to those that have been paid to play professionally. It is simply unrealistic to expect that all of them will know all of the rules and mechanics after even 1-2 years of classes. It is just not going to happen in the real world. That is why they're on the freshman games (or middle school in some areas). They're there to make mistakes....of all types. That is how they ultimately learn. For that matter, I've corrected accomplished 20-year vets on rules issues on more than one occasion..

If you made people be experts in the rules before giving them their first game, we'd never get new people to last long enough to work their first game and we'd be extremely shorthanded.

[ODog]

I just think if seanwestref had gone to a class to complement the test -- your class included, CRust -- he wouldn't be asking about the fundamental principles of one of the rules most butchered by fans, coaches and players.

This isn't "knowing ALL the rules" (which I certainly don't). This is knowing the 3-second rule, the one you know from your classes has everyone going "ahhhhh haaa," similar to when you tell them someone can rebound their own airball or that a kick has to be intentional.

Every game every one of us has ever done has had at least one person (and likely many more) mistakenly clamoring for 3 seconds.

I do see what you're saying re: the spectrum, however. I guess I don't consider that people who haven't been around basketball much would take an interest in officiating it, even though I've seen it in action. You're definitely right.

[ODog]

... and I know I've contributed to making this thread way longer than it needed to be by being flabbergasted and suspicious of its content.

Now that it's proven to be a sincere inquiry, I humbly lay down my sword.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by ODog

... I guess I don't consider that people who haven't been around basketball much would take an interest in officiating it, even though I've seen it in action...

I didn't play basketball beyond 8th grade, despite the fact that I was 6'2" as a high school freshman (tallest in my class).

Got into officiating basketball mainly for "something to do" during the winter after football season ended. And believe me, I made A LOT of mistakes that first year, like the game where I called OOB on 5 or 6 different occasions for a ball hitting the top of the backboard. My partner (a seasoned veteran) didn't correct me until we got into the locker room after the game. I felt like an idiot, but he cheered me up with a "Hey, it's a freshman game, that's why you start here. And now you'll never make that mistake again".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

I didn't play basketball beyond 8th grade, despite the fact that I was 6'2" as a high school freshman (tallest in my class).

Got into officiating basketball mainly for "something to do" during the winter after football season ended. And believe me, I made A LOT of mistakes that first year, like the game where I called OOB on 5 or 6 different occasions for a ball hitting the top of the backboard. My partner (a seasoned veteran) didn't correct me until we got into the locker room after the game. I felt like an idiot, but he cheered me up with a "Hey, it's a freshman game, that's why you start here. And now you'll never make that mistake again".

1. You had five of these plays in one game? If I see five in a season, that's a lot.

2. I would have corrected you much sooner (first chance to talk.)

[ODog]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

... like the game where I called OOB on 5 or 6 different occasions for a ball hitting the top of the backboard. My partner (a seasoned veteran) didn't correct me until we got into the locker room after the game.

Reminds me of a tale I've told on here before where I did an AAU game in Conn. w/a woman I'd never met before. About 1 minute into the game, A1's shot bounces high off the rim and bounces on top of the backboard before falling back into play. FROM THE LEAD (alarm #1), she whistles OOB (alarm #2). I will add this was a freestanding, portable hoop. Think NBA-style, but w/o the cameras and shot clock -- nothing above the board at all.

During a time-out shortly thereafter, I kindly went over and asked her what she had on that play. "It hit the top of the backboard." "And...?" "That's out of bounds." "No, it's not."

... and then the kicker: "Oh, well I'm from Mass., and up there, it's out of bounds."

"Yeah, I am too. And it's the same everywhere -- in."

"OK, we can do it your way if you want."

I don't have to tell you how the rest of the game went. And yeah, I guess backboard conundrums just find me

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ODog

Reminds me of a tale I've told on here before where I did an AAU game in Conn. w/a woman I'd never met before. About 1 minute into the game, A1's shot bounces high off the rim and bounces on top of the backboard before falling back into play. FROM THE LEAD (alarm #1), she whistles OOB (alarm #2). I will add this was a freestanding, portable hoop. Think NBA-style, but w/o the cameras and shot clock -- nothing above the board at all.

During a time-out shortly thereafter, I kindly went over and asked her what she had on that play. "It hit the top of the backboard." "And...?" "That's out of bounds." "No, it's not."

... and then the kicker: "Oh, well I'm from Mass., and up there, it's out of bounds."

"Yeah, I am too. And it's the same everywhere -- in."

"OK, we can do it your way if you want."

I don't have to tell you how the rest of the game went. And yeah, I guess backboard conundrums just find me

Unbelievable! Is she married?