Rule Question and Mechanics Question

[Stair-Climber]

Would like answers for National Federation and ASA.

Rule Question: B/R hits to outfield. B/R rounds first and stops several feet from 1B and stays there with hands on knees and facing pitcher in circle. Ball comes into pitcher (in circle) from outfield. As soon as pitcher receives ball in circle, pitcher quickly turns toward B/R and just stares at her (she neither throws to F3 nor threatens a throw--just stares at B/R). B/R doesn't move, trying to get pitcher to play on her. Has B/R violated look-back rule or is pitcher playing on B/R by turning toward her and staring her down?

Mechanics Question: On a missed swipe tag, no call should be made indicating there is no out--correct? In other words, on a missed swipe tag, umpire should not signal save (the no call means that the tag was missed and not out) and should only make an out call if tag is made--correct? Or when swipe tag is missed and runner makes it to base, then should a safe call be made?

[U_of_I_Blue]

For the LBR you asked about, I've got the runner out. I might give her an extra second or so due to the quick turn by the pitcher, but once they face each other and the runner still stands there, out.

If there is a play near a base, you need to make a call. So on a missed swipe tag and the runner reaches safely, you call safe.

Hope that helps.

-J

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by Stair-Climber
Would like answers for National Federation and ASA.

Rule Question: B/R hits to outfield. B/R rounds first and stops several feet from 1B and stays there with hands on knees and facing pitcher in circle. Ball comes into pitcher (in circle) from outfield. As soon as pitcher receives ball in circle, pitcher quickly turns toward B/R and just stares at her (she neither throws to F3 nor threatens a throw--just stares at B/R). B/R doesn't move, trying to get pitcher to play on her. Has B/R violated look-back rule or is pitcher playing on B/R by turning toward her and staring her down?

both fed and asa:

Were talking seconds here.. I would consider the quick turn a play.. then the clock is again ticking for the runner to decide what to do assuming the pitcher does nothing else.

Originally posted by Stair-Climber
Mechanics Question: On a missed swipe tag, no call should be made indicating there is no out--correct? In other words, on a missed swipe tag, umpire should not signal save (the no call means that the tag was missed and not out) and should only make an out call if tag is made--correct? Or when swipe tag is missed and runner makes it to base, then should a safe call be made?

I call safe on all safes..

but that brings up an interesting question..

A few nites ago in a 14U rec league game I'm PU alone - R1 at B1 - grounder to F4 she swipes at R1 and misses, then quick throw to 1b to retire BR. I signaled safe then turned and probably an half hearted out since it was so obvious.

For some reason the coach only saw the safe and said the runner at 1b was safe cuz i signalled safe. The BR was out by a mile but it still caused trouble with some in the crowd saying that I changed my call to which I eventually faked like I ejected the whole crowd for trying to get an easy out at 1B call over turned.. which got a laugh.

But could have been diff, say a hostile Varsity crowd..

[AtlUmpSteve]

I think in a one umpire game and multiple calls on a play, that is a good time to deviate from one word calls. In your play, I have "NO TAG, SAFE!!, and OUT AT FIRST!! Maybe not tournament mechanics, but if they had a one umpire system in tournament play, it should be the proper mechanics to communicate as clearly as possible.

[Edited by AtlUmpSteve on May 5th, 2005 at 02:01 AM]

[bluezebra]

"In your play, I have "NO TAG, SAFE!!, and OUT AT FIRST!!"

It's the mechanic to use for 2-man, 3-man, or 4-man also.

Bob

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally posted by bluezebra
"In your play, I have "NO TAG, SAFE!!, and OUT AT FIRST!!"

It's the mechanic to use for 2-man, 3-man, or 4-man also.

Bob

Not according to ASA staff, nor NCAA manual. All one word calls, KISS method. Safe, out, tag, strike, no, etc. The memo last year from ASA NUS called it "Simplify Your Game".

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Stair-Climber
On a missed swipe tag, no call should be made indicating there is no out--correct?

I agree with others on the LBR and on making a call when a missed tag happens near the base, e.g. a steal of second or wild throw at first.

In the situation where a fielder attempts to tag a runner not near a base, I will not verbalize the call, but I will still signal it. Example: With R1 on 2B, hot grounder is hit to F6. R1 runs behind F6, who attempts to tag the runner. If the tag is missed, I will signal safe but not verbalize. If a subsequent play is then made at third, I will rule on that as normal.

Also, slightly similar, if a batted ball comes close to hitting a runner and no interference occurs, I will signal safe to let everyone know that the ball did not touch the runner.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
I think in a one umpire game and multiple calls on a play, that is a good time to deviate from one word calls. In your play, I have "NO TAG, SAFE!!, and OUT AT FIRST!! Maybe not tournament mechanics, but if they had a one umpire system in tournament play, it should be the proper mechanics to communicate as clearly as possible.

[Edited by AtlUmpSteve on May 5th, 2005 at 02:01 AM]

Yes, specifying calls can help at times. However, remember that a runner isn't really "safe" until they have reached the base to which they are forced.

Might I suggest, "NO TAG" and "OUT AT FIRST"?

Of course, the putz that believes once you make a call, it is chiseled in stone will always be there.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve

Not according to ASA staff, nor NCAA manual. All one word calls, KISS method. Safe, out, tag, strike, no, etc. The memo last year from ASA NUS called it "Simplify Your Game".

I hear the same thing at clinics and a few umps i work with, I dont necessarily agree. I think the better ump will at times give brief quick esplainations on some plays.. if you signal safe on what looks to be a good out at 1B.. but you saw a pulled foot, its just less trouble to say "Safe pulled foot". Or a ball thats over her head that she doesnt pull back on "strike she went" .. Its just as quick and easy.

I know some umps who call inside outside high low on balls/strikes, which I dont do.. but certain key plays.. (like my play above I should have been more clear) its appropriate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem

I hear the same thing at clinics and a few umps i work with, I dont necessarily agree. I think the better ump will at times give brief quick esplainations on some plays.. if you signal safe on what looks to be a good out at 1B.. but you saw a pulled foot, its just less trouble to say "Safe pulled foot". Or a ball thats over her head that she doesnt pull back on "strike she went" .. Its just as quick and easy.

I know some umps who call inside outside high low on balls/strikes, which I dont do.. but certain key plays.. (like my play above I should have been more clear) its appropriate.

Actually, if you are going to do that, the prescribed manner in which the call is offered is reversed. "Pulled foot, SAFE!", "On the tag, OUT!", etc.

[gsf23]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, if you are going to do that, the prescribed manner in which the call is offered is reversed. "Pulled foot, SAFE!", "On the tag, OUT!", etc.

That's how I was always taught too. I was told that if you signal the pulled foot or the tag first, then it doesn't look like you are just trying to justify your call or making up something to cover yourself after the fact. Guess it sounds more convincing and sells better that way.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, if you are going to do that, the prescribed manner in which the call is offered is reversed. "Pulled foot, SAFE!", "On the tag, OUT!", etc.



[/B]

hmm ok .. I'll buy that for a dollar. Makes sense.

[outathm]

I thought that ASA wanted us to use one word phrases. I do not have my ASA book with me and I don't have a page reference to back this up. I do remember reading the one word phrase in the ASA 2005 book. I have been told not to say where the out was made, even on a double play. Out at first? isn't that where the ball is when you made the call? do you say "catch in Right Field" when the F9 catched a foul ball?

[outathm]

I thought that ASA wanted us to use one word phrases. I do not have my ASA book with me and I don't have a page reference to back this up. I do remember reading the one word phrase in the ASA 2005 book. I have been told not to say where the out was made, even on a double play. Out at first? isn't that where the ball is when you made the call? do you say "catch in Right Field" when the F9 catches a foul ball?

[outathm]

I have been told that the 'out at wherever' phrase was not the way to go. Do we say 'Catch in Right Field' when the f9 fields a fly ball?