Correctable error administration

[FrankHtown]

Situation last night GV. Player A1 is awarded 1 and 1. Misses the first shot. Team B rebounds and starts down court. Table sounds horn, yelling it should have been two shots. Co-official stops play, and we line everybody up to shoot the 2nd free throw.

A bell went off in the back of my mind that on a change of possesion during a correctible error, we go back to the point of interruption? That is, should we have cleared lane, let A1 shoot her second, then give the ball back to B for a throw -in at closest point to where play was stopped?

[IREFU2]

ART. 1 . . . Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in:

a. Failure to award a merited free throw.
b. Awarding an unmerited free throw.
c. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
d. Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
e. Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

ART. 2 . . . In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

[FrankHtown]

ok...we corrected the error before the ball became dead a second time. I was looking for the correct restart.

Do we line everybody up and administer the second free throw as if the miss and rebound hadn't happened?

Or do we clear the lane, award the merited second shot, and resume with a throw in for B at the point of stopping play?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
Situation last night GV. Player A1 is awarded 1 and 1. Misses the first shot. Team B rebounds and starts down court. Table sounds horn, yelling it should have been two shots. Co-official stops play, and we line everybody up to shoot the 2nd free throw.

A bell went off in the back of my mind that on a change of possesion during a correctible error, we go back to the point of interruption? That is, should we have cleared lane, let A1 shoot her second, then give the ball back to B for a throw -in at closest point to where play was stopped?

Your second paragraph is correct. A1 shoots her second free throw all by her lonesome, and then Team B gets the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot where the ball was when you stopped play to correct the error.

MTD, Sr.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Your second paragraph is correct. A1 shoots her second free throw all by her lonesome, and then Team B gets the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot where the ball was when you stopped play to correct the error.

MTD, Sr.

JMO, as usual, but I think the ball never became live after the miss. The table notified the officials right away that there were two shots. It sounds like the "play" was stopped immediately. Therefore, I'd just say, "Sorry everybody. Shoulda been two, line it up for the second shot".

The ball never became live. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

JMO, as usual, but I think the ball never became live after the miss. The table notified the officials right away that there were two shots. It sounds like the "play" was stopped immediately. Therefore, I'd just say, "Sorry everybody. Shoulda been two, line it up for the second shot".

The ball never became live. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

I'll go along with that--if the clock didn't start. If they did start and then stop the clock immediately, what are you gonna do now? By rule?

[cmathews]

Chuck,
Take a little longer look, team B started down court so we did have a change of possesion, and since there was some nit picking in an earlier thread, the ball became live when it was at the throwers disposal

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by cmathews
the ball became live when it was at the throwers disposal

Yes, but it became dead as soon as it was apparent that the FT would not be successful. So the rebounder simply caught a dead ball.

Originally posted by the old grumpy guy
I'll go along with that--if the clock didn't start. If they did start and then stop the clock immediately, what are you gonna do now? By rule?

That's just a simple timer's error. I have definite knowledge of the time that should be on the clock, and so we put it back. The ball was never live during the "play", so we reset the clock, line everybody up and shoot a FT.

It really doesn't seem that hard. The bottom line is the play never happened, b/c the ball was never live. As long as the error is discovered immediately, ignore everything that happened after the first FT and shoot the FT the way it should've happened.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Yes, but it became dead as soon as it was apparent that the FT would not be successful. So the rebounder simply caught a dead ball.

It wasn't dead if it was administered as a 1 and 1 was it? I agree if it was administered as a 2 shot foul and the players rebounded it...but this was administered as a 1 and 1 so it was live wasn't it? Albeit incorrectly administered however LOL

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by cmathews
It wasn't dead if it was administered as a 1 and 1 was it?

Sure it was. If a player should be awarded 2 FTs, he doesn't lose the right to one of them simply b/c the official has a brain cramp. It's a 2 shot foul, regardless of what the official says.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by the Little Short Guy

That's just a simple timer's error. I have definite knowledge of the time that should be on the clock, and so we put it back. The ball was never live during the "play", so we reset the clock, line everybody up and shoot a FT.

[/B]

Oh? And how exactly does that fit in with R2-10-5- "Points scored, consumed time, and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified."

[cmathews]

Chuck, if that was the case then if how would we ever get the ball to become live again in this case? That is why the provision is in the rules to allow points scored to count...if the ball can not become live because of the error, there would be no way to count potential points scored, would there??

[ChuckElias]

It fits with the passage that says an official may declare that the ball never became live. If the ball was never live, then there is no time consumed.

Again, I'm assuming that the horn sounded very quickly. Rebound, turn, pass, horn. If the play gets to the point where Team B scores, then we clearly have to apply 2-10.

I'm trying to avoid 2-10 altogether, b/c a strict enforcement makes for a stupid result. The rational, correct result is to line everybody up and shoot a FT. If the horn sounds immediately, that's what we'll do. If it's not possible to do that then we go with 2-10.

[cmathews]

ok I can see that, and it makes sense....The way I read this case though seems to me to force 2-10, but I see what you are trying to do...and you can probably get by with it however it is corrected. Most coaches don't understand 2-10, or even know it exists LOL

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by cmathews
Chuck, if that was the case then if how would we ever get the ball to become live again in this case?

Well, in my scenario, the ball becomes live when the FT shooter catches the ball to shoot his 2nd FT.

if the ball can not become live because of the error, there would be no way to count potential points scored, would there??

If everybody is allowed to believe that the ball is live and play is allowed to continue, then the ball is live. If kids go for the rebound, but we step in and say, "Uh, guys, it's 2 shots", then the ball is not live. I'm merely suggesting that we say "Uh, guys, it's 2 shots".