Tournament brackets

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Hey Tony, this is not about the Big Ten. As I stated, the Big Ten got what they deserved. They only deserved 3 and earned only 3. But to tell me that Maryland is a #4 seed? Give me a freakin break.

I haven't said they deserved a #4 seed. Actually, I expected UNC to be a 5 and Maryland to be a 6 or 7.

Who cares what Duke did in the past? If that is the criteria, Michigan State should be a #1 seed. Hey, they have one a NC in the past 5 years. Can Duke say that? How many Final Fours did they go to in the past 5 year? Michigan State went to 3 in a row. Wisconsin went to 2 in a row, with not so impressive talent. If Duke and North Carolina have the best talent in the country, why has it been so long sense they won a NC. They had Jason Williams and Shane Batea(sp?), you should have won a NC that year. But that is the past, who do you have now?

None of that has anything to do with the seeding in this year's tourney.

But, yes Duke has won a chanpionship in the past five years, 2001. In fact, 2 of the last 3 National Champions have been from the ACC, not that this matters in this year's tourney. But you keep bringing it up, so I figured I'd straighten you out.

Duke could not beat a middle of the road team like Purdue in the so called Little Ten at a neutral site.

Lots of teams get beat by teams that they shouldn't lose to. St. Joes was down 37 to Xavier and lost by 20. Should they be a 4 or 5 seed? one game does not make a season.

It's funny that you keep dwelling on the Duke loss to Purdue but continue to ignore the ACC-Little Ten Challenge.

Michigan State played the Top 10 for their non conference schedule, why do that if you are going to get beat and not get credit for it. But that is the typical of the ACC. Do not go anywhere and play anyone on the road and then claim you did something.

Don't even come here with that "Michigan State played the Top 10 for their non conference schedule" crap! MSU's strength of schedule was 26th in the country. Carolina's? 3rd! Duke? 6th. Also, MSU has an RPI rating of 39. All 6 of the ACC teams that made the tourney are in the Top 20 in RPI, with your friends from Duke leading the way at #1.

How is North Carolina so good, when they were terrible this past year? And outside of your top 3 (Duke, North Carolina and Maryland), who does anything in the conference?

What does last year have to do with this year? NOTHING. Why do you keep dwelling on it? If last year meant anything, then Marquette would be in the Final Four instead of in the NIT.

Indiana, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State all have been to the Final Four in the past 5 years. What has NC State done in 20 years? What has Wake Forest done as well? Did they get to the Final Four with Tim Duncan on that team? What has GT done? What has Florida State done since they joined the conference? Are you telling me that Miami is going to be a basketball powerhouse? Let us not go there about history and what conferences have done historically. And yes, this is probably one of the better years that the ACC has had, but out side of Tabacco road, who has done anything in your conference. The Big East has has more NC than the ACC in about a 20 year span of time. Take away Duke from that conference, what have they done? But then again, we will find out how good they are in a week. Tell me in a couple of weeks the same thing when they get beat by the many Mid-Majors that knock them off. Not having parody in your league does not make you a better league than everyone else. I think you have been listening to Dickie V too much.

Again, what are you rambling about? Nobody is talking about the past 5, 10 or 20 years. We're talking about this year. But since you brought it up, allow me to give you a little history lesson. In the past 13 years, the ACC has won 5 National Championships! The Little Ten is WAY, WAY down the list with a measley 1 (Thank you Tom Izzo!)!

SEC - 3
Big East - 2
Pac 10 - 2
Little Ten - 1

But again, we aren't talking about the past, are we? We're talking about this year! Stay on the subject please, get your facts straight, and come back when you can make a real argument that the ACC is not the best conference in the country this year!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

NC State was suppose to be all world.

[/B]

There's my sleeper pick for the Final Four. And I certainly ain't a fan of their's, or an ACC fan. NC State is a #3, they have a good early draw, they probably get UConn in the 3rd round and Okafor is hurting big time, and Stanford is soft and over-rated in the other half of that regional.

[Hawks Coach]

No parity in the ACC? I'm sorry, but 6 teams made the tournament for a reason this year, and Duke lost games down the stretch to (who you might ask?) - - four ACC teams. And the year that MD won the championship, as well as the year before when Duke won, the rest of the ACC got hosed because those teams were so powerful that everyone else was viewed as weak. I thought that others could have gone, and others may have showed very well in those years - they just didn't get the chance.

In the post UCLA era, which is precisely 30 yrs, the ACC has won 8 championships with 4 teams, 3 by Duke, 2 by NC St, 2 by UNC, and 1 by MD. In that time, the Big Ten has 6 by 3 teams - IU with 3, 2 by MSU, and UM 1. NC state was down, but so was MSU for 20 years before the Flint kids arrived. and prior to Magic Johnson, when did they win anything? That's right - never. IU had a 15 year gap. All teams and conferences go through this (though we have yet to see this from Coach K at Duke). The Big East was everything, and then crashed hard. they had a 6 year span with no Final Four teams. SEC and ACC have been pretty consistent, but the SEC leans heavily on Kentucky for that consistency.

Final fours I will grant you, the Big Ten has more variety recently, and the Big Ten has been very deep in the past. Not this year. And I am not sure what point you want to make about recent history. sure, duke didn't make the final four last two years. But the ACC has 2 of the last 3 championships.

Your one argument may be best of all - parity may get you lots of strong teams who can advance to a certain degree, but look for championships from conferences where teams have a slightly easier path. Teams from the power conferences without parity are probably a bit mentally sharper at this time of year than teams that have slugged it out in every game during the season. It wears you down.

[Mregor]

Originally posted by BoomerSooner
Pitt is the 2nd easiest (maybe 3nd easiest) 3 seed and I don't think there are any other teams in that bracket to even challenge them.

Hmmm, Pitt probably will play Wisconsin in Milwaukee. Not that easy if you ask me. Wisconsin deservred better than a 6 seed anyway.

MRegor

[JRutledge]

Tony,

You can call the Big Ten the little Ten all you want to. But win a NC in anything besides basketball. I guess if you want to call Women's soccer a sport you can. But have some credibility in other sports. All those sports are horrible in other sports. Michigan, Michigan St, Penn State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa and even Illinois have had success in both football and basketball. You have to add schools just to get good in football. And let us not include hockey and other sports in this conversation. Or even Women's sports as well. And let us not talk academics. Let not even compare the Big Ten schools and ACC schools the the type of players that go to both conference institutions. Maryland cannot even go to Northern Illinois and win a football game. All you have is FSU (which I am a fan btw) and they have dominated the conference for so long, just like Duke dominates the conference in basketball. And guess what, they do not claim FSU as being in a strong conference in football either? Again, the ACC is over-rated and should be looked in the same manner the football side is when it comes to success. Because FSU has more than one NC game in the last 10 years and no one calls the ACC a powerhouse. And Miami that just joined the league is not was not considered to be in a powerhouse conference either with the Big East either. But for the Big Ten, just like every year there is a darkhorse that comes up makes noise in the conference. I cannot ever remember even in the bad times of Michigan basketball a team falling to the bottom like Duke and North Carolina. Most of the ACC have not seen a bowl game in 10 years. And when they win a bowl game, it is the first time in 20 years that ever happen. And the ACC is mostly in the south, I thought football was the Meca of the country in that sport?

Little Ten my a$$!!!!

Peace

[BBall_Junkie]

Good argument Jrut. Let's just change the argument completely to try to justify the original position. Genious. Pure Genious.

What does this have anything to do with rebutting any of the facts that Hawkscoach or Bktballref have put forward relative to strength of the ACC conf v. Big 10 in BASKETBALL. And before you go off half cocked (you have already in this thread by erroneously stating that Duke did not win a NC with Shane Battier and Jayson Williams), I live in the heart of Big 12 country not ACC country.

[Mregor]

How does Maryland, a bubble team, earn a higher seed than Wisconsin? Something foul there. Wisconsin finished with a 10 or 12 ranking (I think anyway), win the big 10 T-ment, and yet Maryland who wasn't even going to get in, gets a higher seed. At least they put Wisconsin in Milwaukee. This with a team of home state starters. Yes, every starter went to HS in Wisconsin. BTW, did you know that Bo Ryan is the winningest coach in the NCAA? I didn't. So what if 90% of his wins were in D3. He is a great coach and gets the most out of his players. If I was Pitt, I'd be worried.

Mregor

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Final fours I will grant you, the Big Ten has more variety recently, and the Big Ten has been very deep in the past. Not this year. And I am not sure what point you want to make about recent history. sure, duke didn't make the final four last two years. But the ACC has 2 of the last 3 championships.

The ACC had Len Bias, Ralph Sampson, Tim Duncan. All played 4 years, how many championship? Even North Carolina had 1 in the 80s and who was on that team? When has Virgina been to a Final Four? When did NC State go to a Final Four sense 83?

When the middle to lower part of that conference shows up in the NCAA Tournament (where we keep referring to btw), then talk to me about how good they are. Of course there are always situations where a team here, at team there is going to win something. But Duke and North Carolina always seem to get the benefit of the doubt and get #1 seed, which is the easiest way to the Final Four. Then they cannot make it because some team that is battle tested beats them. Maybe this will be a break out year. But they do not call the Big Ten conference a good football conference because what they do in the regular season. They call them that way by what they do in the post season. Stop telling me the ACC is great when only Duke and North Carolina does something. You do not judge the Big Ten by Michigan and Ohio State alone in football do you?

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mregor
How does Maryland, a bubble team, earn a higher seed than Wisconsin? Something foul there. Wisconsin finished with a 10 or 12 ranking (I think anyway), win the big 10 T-ment, and yet Maryland who wasn't even going to get in, gets a higher seed. At least they put Wisconsin in Milwaukee. This with a team of home state starters. Yes, every starter went to HS in Wisconsin. BTW, did you know that Bo Ryan is the winningest coach in the NCAA? I didn't. So what if 90% of his wins were in D3. He is a great coach and gets the most out of his players. If I was Pitt, I'd be worried.

Mregor, we've already covered this ground. Go back and re-read the thread and you'll see why Wisconsin is a 6 seed.

Rut, I bet you're eyes are brown 'cause you're completely full of $hit!

Yes, the Big Ten was a better football conference than the ACC was this year. Who cares? We aren't talking about football, we're talking about basketball. And this year, the Little Ten was the runt of the major conferences, sucking hind teat just like runts are forced to do! LOL!

ACC! It's awesome baby!!

[Bart Tyson]

But Duke and North Carolina always seem to get the benefit of the doubt and get #1 seed, which is the easiest way to the Final Four.
[/B]

Yep and it happened again this year.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
Good argument Jrut. Let's just change the argument completely to try to justify the original position. Genious. Pure Genious.

What does this have anything to do with rebutting any of the facts that Hawkscoach or Bktballref have put forward relative to strength of the ACC conf v. Big 10 in BASKETBALL. And before you go off half cocked (you have already in this thread by erroneously stating that Duke did not win a NC with Shane Battier and Jayson Williams), I live in the heart of Big 12 country not ACC country.

I did not say anything about this being about the Big Ten. I only use the Big Ten as an example of ranking. The Big Ten deserved 3 and got 3. You could make an argument that Michigan could have gotten a knod, but if they were in the ACC no one would bat an eye. And I did not say that Shane Battie did not ever win a National Championship. But they did not win the following year and got beat by a middle of the road Indiana team the following year. And Jayson Williams was on that team if I am not mistaken. If you use Tony's logic, that team should have never made the NCAA tournament and only did so by getting to the Big Ten Tournament Championship game, which they lost that year. Maryland this year was on the bubble. They were only a lock by winning the ACC tournament, then they get a #4 seed. Duke is ranked lower than OSU, and they get an #1 seed. Illinois lost their tournament and got a #5 seed. I would have at least thought Wisconsin would get similar consideration on the seeding. But Maryland was out without that win, why the better seeding. The ACC always gets this consideration and it is funny to me. One team cannot dominate a conference and you call the rest of the conference the best. I do not hear anyone talking about how strong the Pac-10 was when UCLA was dominating. I guess Bob Huggins is a great coach because he got to the Final Four a couple of times. Because that was the crap we heard about Dean Smith for years, when he only had one title in his trophy case. Bobby Knight won 3 in a lesser time and did not need the amount of wins to get to that point, all in the Big Ten.

And I do not care what Tony says, he works in a sub-par state of HS talent. So who cares what he says.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Mregor, we've already covered this ground. Go back and re-read the thread and you'll see why Wisconsin is a 6 seed.

Rut, I bet you're eyes are brown 'cause you're completely full of $hit!

Yes, the Big Ten was a better football conference than the ACC was this year. Who cares? We aren't talking about football, we're talking about basketball. And this year, the Little Ten was the runt of the major conferences, sucking hind teat just like runts are forced to do! LOL!

ACC! It's awesome baby!!

Nonsense. Wisconsin got hosed. They lost to Maryland, on the road, in overtime. Big hairy deal.

The team was ranked #10 in the country coming into this week and is still #10. Their RPI rating is #12 in the country. Somebody wanted to slam the Big 10 and they're taking it out on Wisconsin. The should still be in Milwaukee, but as the 3 seed.

Here are higher seeded teams that did NOT win their conference championship and have a lower RPI than Wisconsin:

Florida
Syracuse
Kansas
Providence (Providence?!?)
Georgia Tech
Wake Forest
Illinois

--Rich

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Nonsense. Wisconsin got hosed. They lost to Maryland, on the road, in overtime. Big hairy deal.

The team was ranked #10 in the country coming into this week and is still #10. Their RPI rating is #12 in the country. Somebody wanted to slam the Big 10 and they're taking it out on Wisconsin. The should still be in Milwaukee, but as the 3 seed.

Nonsense what? I never said they didn't get screwed. I simply said we had previously discussed the late game situation. Yeah, they should have been seeded higher had their game ended earlier in the day but it didn't and they aren't. My suggestion is that you write the Little Ten office and express your displeasure to them for playing their game so late.

Further, if you're so silly as to believe that the Committee was intentionally trying to screw the Little Ten, with a Little Ten AD as the Chair, then you're as full of it as Rut!

Originally posted by JRutledge
If you use Tony's logic, that team should have never made the NCAA tournament and only did so by getting to the Big Ten Tournament Championship game, which they lost that year.

WTF are you talking about? All I've said over and over again is the the ACC is the best conference in the country this year. I have no idea what that has to do with Indiana getting to the Final Four. Why can't you stay focused on the discussion at hand without referring to ancoient history.

Say it, "Little Ten 2, ACC 7"...say it over and over, "2-7, 2-7. 2-7, 2-7..."

And I do not care what Tony says, he works in a sub-par state of HS talent. So who cares what he says.

Is that suppose to fire me up or something? I couldn't care less what you think of the HS basketball players in NC. I don't play HS basketball!

Yep...for sure...you have brown eyes!

[cmathews]

Ok new question on all of this....Who wants to play Duke, Maryland, NC, NC State, Wake, or Georgia Tech, in the first round....come on hold up the hands, and pick one...I am a MWC fan, but anyone with a real objective, and sane view can see that the ACC is the best conference in the nation this year. Football has nothing to do with who is the best basketball conference...the fact that Duke lost as many games as they did in the last 10 is a testament to the fact that 2 schools are not carrying the conference.. I know it is kind of cheating now that we know 7-2...but I take the ACC against the tiny 10 this year and next and for the foreseeable future... but they better not come out to the MWC or they will get their a$$ kicked....wow....did I type that out loud???....

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by cmathews
Ok new question on all of this....Who wants to play Duke, Maryland, NC, NC State, Wake, or Georgia Tech, in the first round....come on hold up the hands, and pick one...I am a MWC fan, but anyone with a real objective, and sane view can see that the ACC is the best conference in the nation this year. Football has nothing to do with who is the best basketball conference...the fact that Duke lost as many games as they did in the last 10 is a testament to the fact that 2 schools are not carrying the conference.. I know it is kind of cheating now that we know 7-2...but I take the ACC against the tiny 10 this year and next and for the foreseeable future... but they better not come out to the MWC or they will get their a$$ kicked....wow....did I type that out loud???....

Thank you, my unbiased friend from Wyoming!