Tournament brackets

[Barry C. Morris]

[obnoxious UK fan mode on]

It brings me great joy to watch you commoners argue and fight over the crumbs that fall from the table of the Kentucky Wildcat's feast. Continue, peasants!

[obnoxious UK fan mode off]

[dread of when I'll have to eat my words mode on]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Finally to Tony, just because the AD of a BIG TEN is the chair doesn't mean it wasn't fair. It just means the AD of the BIG TEN has NO nuts.

When they are discussing teams in the Big Ten, the chair has to leave the room. He cannot vote or influence the teams that works in his conference or school.

All I am saying is that everyone bought the hype. You have heard all season that the ACC was the best, and they were choosen like they were. But as usually, there will be several of these teams that cannot win 1 or 2 games. This will be another year where the ACC has teams like Georgia Tech that are hyped up to have talent and they are watching after the first site. Maryland will be in that boat too. I will always give Duke credit and Coach K for what he does there. But the rest of the conference is pure garbage. They hardly play anyone on the road. They are always looked as having talent, but they cannot do anything with it. I bet you cannot even remember who was on the Ohio State or Wisconsin teams when they were in the Final Four, but they were there? When has GT been there last? Where will NC State be there next? NC State got beat at home by Washington, who is suppose to be from the sorry Pac-10. I think the Pac 10 is a better conference than the ACC and the Big East. Duke did not deserve a #1 seed. But J.J. Reddick will shot terribly again and they will be out early, one more time.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Finally to Tony, just because the AD of a BIG TEN is the chair doesn't mean it wasn't fair. It just means the AD of the BIG TEN has NO nuts.

The Big Ten AD doesn't have a voice when Big Ten teams are being considered . . . NCAA rules.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by JRutledge


All I am saying is that everyone bought the hype. You have heard all season that the ACC was the best, and they were choosen like they were. But as usually, there will be several of these teams that cannot win 1 or 2 games.
Peace

Isn't that the same hype the Big 10 had in football this past season? When 8 of their teams had bowl invitations and yet they went 3-5? How is this any different? There is always hype about this conference and that conference...sometimes it pans out, sometimes it doesn't...toss the ball up and let's see how it all falls out.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Not quite - the tourney time is set by one thing and one thing only - the conference's contract with either ESPN or CBS. Neither network is going to want a game to end at 2, then have viewers turn the channel until the women's selection show at 5.

The conferences agreed to those times. It's been that way for years and they've know that the seeding was done before those games finished. It's nothing new. I doubt they'll change anything. Sure, it may be driven by the networks but they're the ones offering the money. The conferences can take the money and play late or dictate their own time but probably at a lower amount of money. Still the conferences choice. They chose money over time.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Finally to Tony, just because the AD of a BIG TEN is the chair doesn't mean it wasn't fair. It just means the AD of the BIG TEN has NO nuts.

Please tell us what Little Ten teams should be in and what teams that are in should be out.

As for Rut, 2-7, baby, 2-7. That league that isn't worth a crap and iisn't as good as the PAC-10 won 7 out 0f 9 games in the ACC Little Ten Challenege!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

The Big Ten AD doesn't have a voice when Big Ten teams are being considered . . . NCAA rules.

And you believe that?

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by LDUB
I don't think Maryland should even be in the NCAA tournament. I know everyone will say they won the ACC so they are in. But the won the ACC tournament. Any middle of the road team with a little bit of luck will has a chance at winning a tournament.

LDUB, kindly explain how on earth MD does not belong in a 64 team field. And while you at it, please summarize the drug testing policies of your current employer - they may be very relevant to this discussion.

Maryland beat Wisconsin, the Big Ten champ. They beat Florida at Florida, when Florida was ranked #1. They beat Duke once, NC state twice (including at NC St), they beat Wake, G tech, UNC. They lost 2 non-conference games in a schedule that included 4 tournament teams. All year, they did not lose any games to teams that are out of the post-season. Their RPI is 18 (probably represents some ACC bias), which would justfiy a solid 5 seed, but you can easily go 1 up or 1 down from your RPI (that means 4 or 6 for the mathmatically challenged among you - there appear to be many out there who lack basic computation skills), based on where the committee finds it best to place you without shaking the overall bracket too much.

I can see an argument against MD being a 4 - I agree that it is a stretch at best. Even the committee chair admitted that the 4 move for MD was based on convenience as well as their win - the brackets worked better for some reason if they did this (maybe because they keep WI at home, a huge advantage compared to being a 4 seed on the road or neutral). Based on the tournaments I have seen, there is a lot of danger for 4 and 6 seeds in the tourney, and it is hard to say who has the easier path sometimes, especailly when you are talking different regions.

I cannot believe that a Big Ten guy like me feels compelled to defend the ACC against the total insanity that passes for debate on this board. I would love for the Big Ten to have put forward some sort of credible product that would justify defending its honor. Unfortunately, this year it did not. It stunk. Deal with it - I realized it months ago and have moped ever since.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

LDUB, kindly explain how on earth MD does not belong in a 64 team field. And while you at it, please summarize the drug testing policies of your current employer - they may be very relevant to this discussion.

Maryland beat Wisconsin, the Big Ten champ. They beat Florida at Florida, when Florida was ranked #1. They beat Duke once, NC state twice (including at NC St), they beat Wake, G tech, UNC. They lost 2 non-conference games in a schedule that included 4 tournament teams. All year, they did not lose any games to teams that are out of the post-season. Their RPI is 18 (probably represents some ACC bias), which would justfiy a solid 5 seed, but you can easily go 1 up or 1 down from your RPI (that means 4 or 6 for the mathmatically challenged among you - there appear to be many out there who lack basic computation skills), based on where the committee finds it best to place you without shaking the overall bracket too much.

I cannot believe that a Big Ten guy like me feels compelled to defend the ACC against the total insanity that passes for debate on this board. I would love for the Big Ten to have put forward some sort of credible product that would justify defending its honor. Unfortunately, this year it did not. It stunk. Deal with it - I realized it months ago and have moped ever since.

Profile For Hawks Coach Search: All posts by this registered user.
Date Registered: Feb 2nd, 2000 Status: Senior Member Total Posts: 1846 Last Post: Mar 16th, 2004 02:14 PM
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So you are a Big Ten guy? But you are from Maryland? Ain't that ACC country??? Now I know just because you live in Maryland does not mean you can not like the Big Ten. You gotta be somewhat biased.

And then the fact that you are saying to me that Maryland should be in the NCAA tournament even with a 7-9 confrence record. Ok well that is your opinion. But then again you are from Maryland. You say you are a Big Ten guy. But you are from Maryland and you argue for Maryland????

[Edited by LDUB on Mar 16th, 2004 at 03:16 PM]

[Hawks Coach]

RPI of Big Ten teams who just missed tournament:
Michigan 55
Iowa 86
Indiana 87
Purdue 107 -

RPI of ACC teams who just missed the tourney
UVA 52
FSU 53

Please note that although the RPIs are higher than any of the Big Ten tournament wannabes, I am not trying to make a case that either of these teams should be in the tournament.

RPIs of ACC teams in the tournament are #1 (my emphasis - it pays to play 24 games against teams in the post season), as well as 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 (in darts we would call this a tight flight, in the area of trip 20).

RPIs of the Big Ten teams: 12, 23, 39

The last, MSU, would be a bubble team in my book, but let's give them a bid based on history of good performances . And by the way, for those that claim MSU faced road hardship, MSU played 10 tournament teams, 4 on the road and 6 at home, going 2-8 in those games. In conference, they did not beat a single team that made the tournament. Non-conference, they were 2-2.

This result varies slightly from that we have already discussed with any ACC team in the tournament. Combined ACC record against non-conference NCAA tournament teams was 20-4, with a total of 12 home games, 7 road games and 5 neutral court games. That's an average of 4 tournament teams, like MSU, with an average record better than 3-1. So much for playing nobody, and playing all games at home. Only half the games against NCAA teams were at home. and the ACC teams all won significant road and home games in the conference, something the Spartans couldn't do, and something my alma mater failed to do.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Luck has very little to do with winning 3 consecutive games over the #1, #2, and #3 seeds in your conference or 6 straight games to win the National Championship. Yeah, luck might help you win 1 game but not 3, 4, 5, or 6.

First off I said nothing about the NCAA tournament. If luck had nothing to do with Maryland winning the ACC tournament, if Maryland actually was the best team in the ACC, why did they lose 9 out of 16 games in the ACC? Once again I am not putting down the ACC. But if luck has nothing to do with it the higher seed should win every game. If Maryland actually was the best team in the ACC then why did they lose 9 games?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by LDUB
And then the fact that you are saying to me that Maryland should be in the NCAA tournament even with a 7-9 confrence record. Ok well that is your opinion. But then again you are from Maryland. You say you are a Big Ten guy. But you are from Maryland and you argue for Maryland????

The Committee does not consider conference record AT ALL. Heard it directly from the Chairman's mouth last week.

Also, I believe that Hawk's Coach told us earlier in this thread that he attended a Big Ten school, Michigan. That being so, I'm sure he's a much bigger Little Ten fan than an ACC fan. I lived in Tennessee for * years but that didn't turn me into an SEC fan.

[Hawks Coach]

Having watched them all year, MD was a young and mentally immature team that got by on some luck and talent early to get some big wins, and only gradually learned how to play ball in a tough conference. Gary Williams did a great job keeping his players focussed and bringing them along even though losses were piling up. MD has tons of talent, but players made a lot of bonehead plays in the early part of the ACC season against experienced teams at critical times during games. They almost put themselves in that situation against Duke, going down 12 with 4 to play.

And yes, there is always an element of luck in any one and done tournament. If Reddick hits the open look in regulation, we have a whole different set of facts. Every coach that wins an NCAA tournament will tell you that. Win one overtime game and a one-point game in the same tournament, you have to have some luck and a lot of skill.

You cannot win a quality tournament on luck alone - you need the skill and mental awareness to take advantage of the breaks that go your way. MD is winning the close games now, and that is critical at this point in the season. Two months ago they were losing these same games. But a little bad luck in a close game or hitting a really hot team, and MD will be out in the NCAAs, just like every other team.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by LDUB

First off I said nothing about the NCAA tournament. If luck had nothing to do with Maryland winning the ACC tournament, if Maryland actually was the best team in the ACC, why did they lose 9 out of 16 games in the ACC? Once again I am not putting down the ACC. But if luck has nothing to do with it the higher seed should win every game. If Maryland actually was the best team in the ACC then why did they lose 9 games?

Just because a team wins a tournament does not mean they're lucky. That's ludicrous. A team can hit a streak and be playing the best basketball of their season at tournament time. Was Villanova the best team in 85? NC State the best team in 83? Kansas in 88? No, but they found a way to win. luck has very little to do with it.

I saw every game of the ACC tourney and I can assure you that Maryland did not win because they were lucky.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by LDUB
So you are a Big Ten guy? But you are from Maryland? Ain't that ACC country??? Now I know just because you live in Maryland does not mean you can not like the Big Ten. You gotta be somewhat biased.

And then the fact that you are saying to me that Maryland should be in the NCAA tournament even with a 7-9 confrence record. Ok well that is your opinion. But then again you are from Maryland. You say you are a Big Ten guy. But you are from Maryland and you argue for Maryland????

Father was UM, 1959
Born: Bloomington, Il, 3/6/62
All known relatives lived in MI while growing up
Graduated: University HS, Normal, IL, 1980
Enlisted: USN, orders to NAF Detroit, 1982
Discharged USN: Detroit, August, 1987
Wife graduated UM in 1987
Season ticket holder, UM football & baskeball, 1985-1991
Attended regional final in 1989, UM's only National championship
Graduated: UM, 1991
Moved to Maryland - my first step into ACC country after 30 years in Big Ten country - and boy, I still miss real football. But this ain't football we are talking.

From Maryland, NO! Yes I live in Maryland. Yes, I am a basketball fan - I grew up in what I consider to be the heartland of basketball. You haven't seen HS ball til you have seen it in central Illinois, if you ask me. NC and IN residents results may vary

Am I completely unbiased - no, I never claimed to be. But I side with any Big Ten team (including ohowihateohiostate)over any ACC team any day, exception of UMD, who I will take over anybody except my beloved alma mater. I take Michigan over anybody, anywhere, any time, including UMD.

I also have two functioning eyes and a TV that picks up ESPN - you don't have to watch much ball to see the difference this year. I would say that they are night and day, but that understates it because dawn and dusk are times where the night-day distinctions may get blurred - this never happens when comparing the Big Ten to the ACC this year!