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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 14, 2004, 06:57pm
Huck Finn
 
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Tournament spokesman: "we were able to take into account the ACC game.........."

How many games can Duke lose and still get a #1 seed? How obvious can this thing get? If the records don't matter then why not make Duke a #1 seed before the season?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 14, 2004, 07:17pm
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The Dookies were 6-4 in their last 10 games.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 14, 2004, 08:18pm
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my thoughts

1. Wisconsin got a poor seed. I would have said #4.
2. Utah State got screwed.
3. UTEP was fortunate, but deserving.
4. It is truly unfortunate that the Big Ten and Big Twelve play their title games so late. It hurt both winners.
5. I believe the Richmond in the same bracket with St. Joe's is a mistake.
6. Duke v. UNC will not happen. Tony doesn't have to worry about losing to them again.
7. Maryland may have gassed themselves this weekend.
8. Gonzaga deserved the 2.


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 14, 2004, 08:31pm
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I too don't get it. Duke, #1? What about Okla. St.?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 14, 2004, 09:10pm
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OSU ws hurt by the fact that they're game with Texas did not end until late in the afternoon. The Committee started buikding the brackets around 2:40. They could not possibly have waited until after the Big 10 and Big 12 games were completed before working the brackets.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 14, 2004, 10:08pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
OSU ws hurt by the fact that they're game with Texas did not end until late in the afternoon. The Committee started buikding the brackets around 2:40. They could not possibly have waited until after the Big 10 and Big 12 games were completed before working the brackets.
Why can't they wait?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 12:50am
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As much time and consideration as they put into the brackets they could have contengencies to allow for the late games. OSU's win as much as it hurts to say (being an OU student), should have pushed them up to a No. 1 seed. Duke could pretty much go 15-15 and get a #1 seed. I do think as a #2 OSU has the easiest road though. St. Joe's is the easiet #1. Pitt is the 2nd easiest (maybe 3nd easiest) 3 seed and I don't think there are any other teams in that bracket to even challenge them.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 02:49am
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Thumbs down Maryland is WHAT!!!!

I just think the ACC is the most overrated conference around. You are telling me that Maryland, who was not in the tournament a week ago is not a #4 seed? Maryland struggled all year and now they are a #4 seed? Duke got beat by a weak Purdue team on a neutral site (Alaskan Shootout) and they are a #1 seed, but the Big Ten was weak? Michigan cannot make the tournament, but Conference USA, which Louisville struggled the last half of the season, gets 6 teams? Michigan State played the Top 10, played Kentucky as usual, Indiana played Kentucky as well (got killed btw) and the sorry a$$ ACC never plays anywhere with any big conference on the road and they are considered the best conference around? The Big Ten takes all commers each and every year. When has North Carolina gone on the road and beat someone? But this is the class of the country we are talking about?

I think the Big Ten needs to start playing North Carolina A&T and South Carolina A&M at home, then when they have 5 losses in their conference and undefeated in their non-conference schedule (all at home) then maybe they will be considered elite. Now, I can see why they only got 3 teams in, even thought Michigan probably deserved an opportunity. But to see Maryland a #4 seed and North Carolina a #6 seed and seed Wisconsin that won the Conference tournament a #6 seed, when they were in the tournament supposedly all along and Maryland has been on the bubble sense December is curious.

I just do not understand what the thinking was.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 06:33am
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What's the beef? I'm shocked that you guys think DUKE should not be a #1 seed! DUKE! DUKE! DUKE!
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 06:59am
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Why did they change what they call the brackets? The "East Rutherford" bracket? That's just stupid. Just call it the East, like it always has been. What's the point of changing it? Phoenix bracket = West. Change for the sake of changing it. Bleh.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 08:02am
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Re: Maryland is WHAT!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
You are telling me that Maryland, who was not in the tournament a week ago is not a #4 seed? Maryland struggled all year and now they are a #4 seed?

But to see Maryland a #4 seed and North Carolina a #6 seed and seed Wisconsin that won the Conference tournament a #6 seed, when they were in the tournament supposedly all along and Maryland has been on the bubble sense December is curious.

I am sorry I missed the early part of the season, where interconference play takes place. I had thought that the ACC clearly established an unprecedented level of superiority over the Big Ten. I'm sorry, you are right about ACC non-conference schedules being weak - 9 ACC teams played 9 Big Ten teams, rather than going after some real competition.

Florida State 71, N'western 53
Wake Forest 100, Indiana 67
Michigan 68, N.C. State 61
North Carolina 88, Illinois 81
Maryland 73, Wisconsin 67 (OT)
Georgia Tech 73, Ohio State 53
Purdue 76, Clemson 64
Duke 72, Michigan State 50
Virginia 86, Minnesota 78
(ACC wins Challenge, 7-2)

From the first line of the Duke - MSU game.
EAST LANSING, Mich. (AP) -- Duke's talent, grit and mystique made Michigan State crumble.

Sounds like a 22 point road win against admittedly sub-par competition, but a road win nonetheless. The only quality win by a Big Ten team was Michigan beating NC St - Clemson finished last in the ACC and was clearly worse than any other team.

Non-conference records of the ACC teams that made it to the dance and seeds of the tourney teams they beat/lost to:

Duke, 12-1, beat Liberty (16 ), Valparaiso (15 ), Princeton (14 moving up!), Texas (3), won at MSU (7), admittedly lost to Purdue (NIT-only non-conference loss)

UNC, 8-1 beat IL and UCONN(2), lost at UK(1 -top seed in Tourney)

UMD, 9-2, won at FL(5), Beat WI(6 -should be higher), lost to Gonzaga(2), W VA (NIT)

G-tech, 13-1, won at UCONN (2), beat Texas Tech (8), La Lafayette (14), Tennessee (NIT), Georgia (NIT) and of course Ohio St

Wake, 10-1, beat Memphis (7), Richmond (11), Cincinnati (4), lost at Texas (3) oh yeah, smoked Indiana

NC State, worst of the lot non-conference, 8-3, beat Washington (8), BYU (12), lost to BC (6) and at Michigan (NIT) - but did finish 2nd in ACC


And what is this about Maryland?

From the Maryland scedule, courtesy ESPN.com

12/2 No. 10 Wisconsin W 73-67 4-0
12/10 at Florida W 69-68 5-2

From the last poll in December, at which time Maryland was a "bubble" team:

25. Maryland 6-2 62pts (next team had 29 points - not exactly close)
Last Week:
This Week: Def. NC Greensboro 85-58 (12/23), Lost to Florida State 79-75 (12/28)

Oh, I am sorry. Let's not bring facts into the argument!
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 08:29am
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Took a quick glance at the powerful Big Ten conference, specifically the teams that might have a gripe, the 3 NIT teams (if you didn't make the NIT, don't even speak).

Purdue, 10-3, beat Duke (1 - the best non-conf win in the Big Ten), lost at Oklahoma (NIT), at Colorado St (no tourney), at SMU (no tourney), finished sub-.500 in the Big Ten and lost in first round of tournament - not the NCAA resume

Michigan, 9-2, beat NC St (3), lost at Vanderbilt (6), at BU (NIT)

Iowa, 7-4, beat Lousiville (10), lost at Missouri (NIT), at Texas Tech (8), at Iowa St (NIT) at N. Iowa (14)

I am sorry, but where are those quality road wins? Duke is the single one, but Purdue played its own way out of the Big Dance.

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 08:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
OSU ws hurt by the fact that they're game with Texas did not end until late in the afternoon. The Committee started building the brackets around 2:40. They could not possibly have waited until after the Big 10 and Big 12 games were completed before working the brackets.
Why can't they wait?
Hmmmm, I thought I answered that question, didn't I?

The Big `10 game didn't end until 5:35pm. The show was at 6:00. CBS has to receive the brackets in time to prepare their TV graphics and [re[are their analysts. My guess is that CBS gets the brackets at least an hour before the show starts, maybe longer.

I bet we see a change next year, since the Chairman admitted such on live TV.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 15th, 2004 at 07:33 AM]
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoomerSooner
As much time and consideration as they put into the brackets they could have contengencies to allow for the late games. OSU's win as much as it hurts to say (being an OU student), should have pushed them up to a No. 1 seed. Duke could pretty much go 15-15 and get a #1 seed. I do think as a #2 OSU has the easiest road though. St. Joe's is the easiet #1. Pitt is the 2nd easiest (maybe 3nd easiest) 3 seed and I don't think there are any other teams in that bracket to even challenge them.
#1, to say that Duke would gewt a #1 seed if they went 15-15 is a rather silly remark.

#2, I'm quite sure if the Committee could have built in copntengencies, they would have. They didn't. Evidently, it wasn't possible.

#3, St. Joes will not make the Final 8, much less Final Four.

#4, Pitt having to play Wisconsin in Milwaukee wasn't real smart on the Committee's part.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I just think the ACC is the most overrated conference around. You are telling me that Maryland, who was not in the tournament a week ago is not a #4 seed? Maryland struggled all year and now they are a #4 seed? Duke got beat by a weak Purdue team on a neutral site (Alaskan Shootout) and they are a #1 seed, but the Big Ten was weak? Michigan cannot make the tournament, but Conference USA, which Louisville struggled the last half of the season, gets 6 teams? Michigan State played the Top 10, played Kentucky as usual, Indiana played Kentucky as well (got killed btw) and the sorry a$$ ACC never plays anywhere with any big conference on the road and they are considered the best conference around? The Big Ten takes all commers each and every year. When has North Carolina gone on the road and beat someone? But this is the class of the country we are talking about?

I think the Big Ten needs to start playing North Carolina A&T and South Carolina A&M at home, then when they have 5 losses in their conference and undefeated in their non-conference schedule (all at home) then maybe they will be considered elite. Now, I can see why they only got 3 teams in, even thought Michigan probably deserved an opportunity. But to see Maryland a #4 seed and North Carolina a #6 seed and seed Wisconsin that won the Conference tournament a #6 seed, when they were in the tournament supposedly all along and Maryland has been on the bubble sense December is curious.

I just do not understand what the thinking was.
#1, who's better, the ACC or the Little 10? Well, let's see, if I remember correctly, the ACC beat the Little Ten, 7-2 in the Challenege. Of course, you can't really call it that, since the ACC doesn't play anybody on the road.

#2, North Carolina, was ranked in the Top 20 all year, so I'm not sure why you're upset that they got a #6 seed. BTW, they beat Illnois regualr season champion Illnois, UConn who was #1 at the time and lost to Kentucky by 5 at UK.

#3, who said Maryland was on the bubble? It wouldn't appear so. If you can beat #3 seed Wake, #2 seed NC State and #1 seed Duke on consecutive days, let's just say that's pretty strong. That's how strong the ACC was this year.

Cry all you want but the ACC was a better conference than the Little Ten this year.

And, even though Duke didn't finish strong, I have no problem with them being a #1 seed, even though I think OSU gets it if the committee waits until all the games are played.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 15, 2004, 09:08am
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As a Syracuse fan, I couldn't be happier that Maryland was vaulted to a #4. I didn't like Syracuse's chances of getting back to the final four, but with BYU, Maryland, and an overrated Stanford team on the horizon...
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