"Shooting" at own basket

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

T-Mac Alley Oop to himself All Star 2004 - YouTube, Sorry I don't know how to imbed. And hit the skip ad button.

specifically allowed in both NFHS and NCAA rules / cases.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Count the basket. Consider the first release to be a try, despite any obvious evidence to the contrary.

You don't need to consider his first release to be a try. It's legal to throw the ball off your own backboard and retrieve it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You don't need to consider his first release to be a try. It's legal to throw the ball off your own backboard and retrieve it.

It's also legal if you consider it a try.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It's also legal if you consider it a try.

I'm missing the point of that. Everyone already knows you can rebound your own shot.

You told a poster in order for the play to be legal you need to consider McGrady's throw off the backboard "a try". Why does he need to consider it a try when it's perfectly legal to throw the ball off your own backboard and retrieve it? Why add judgment to a play that doesn't need judgment?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm missing the point of that. Everyone already knows you can rebound your own shot.

You told a poster in order for the play to be legal you need to consider McGrady's throw off the backboard "a try". Why does he need to consider it a try when it's perfectly legal to throw the ball off your own backboard and retrieve it? Why add judgment to a play that doesn't need judgment?

I know there is another option. You might be good enough to refresh my memory of the details. (a player may use his own equipment, etc.)

But what's the problem with calling it a try? Player threw the ball which hit the board and was subsequently rebounded by him or some other player. For all intents and purposes, it was a try.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I know there is another option. You might be good enough to refresh my memory of the details. (a player may use his own equipment, etc.)

But what's the problem with calling it a try? Player threw the ball which hit the board and was subsequently rebounded by him or some other player. For all intents and purposes, it was a try.

For me I prefer to the conversation with the opposing coach to be "a player is allowed to throw the ball at his own backboard and retrieve it" rather than saying "that throw off the backboard is considered a try".

When given the choice of "cut and dry" vs. "judgment and condsideration", I prefer the former.

[representing]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just think of this player as "dribbling" off the court floor when he "dribbles" off the backboard. Also remember that this is not a try. Do I have this right?

That's what we were told at a meeting last year. If the player in possession has the capability to dribble and bounces the ball off the opposing backboard, he has to (in the words of our interpreter) "continue the dribble off the backboard" in order be able to move with the ball. If he catches it, then he cannot dribble anymore. And, if I remember correctly, if the possessor does not have the capability to dribble, he cannot be the next to possess the ball if he bounces the ball off the opposing basket (i.e. another player must gain possession).

And it cannot be a legal try. If a A1 is fouled while throwing the ball off the opposing backboard or accidentally tries for a basket, it does not warrant free-throws. It would just be a throw-in at the spot closest to the spot of the foul.

That just led me to a question though... what if the ball goes into the wrong basket when a player, in shooting motion, is fouled? I think this is dead ball and the basket doesn't count, but may need someone to confirm that.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

.

That just led me to a question though... what if the ball goes into the wrong basket when a player, in shooting motion, is fouled? I think this is dead ball and the basket doesn't count, but may need someone to confirm that.

Correct. The foul causes the ball to become dead, so if it subsequently enters the opponent's basket, it doesn't count.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by representing

That just led me to a question though... what if the ball goes into the wrong basket when a player, in shooting motion, is fouled? I think this is dead ball and the basket doesn't count, but may need someone to confirm that.

Correct. The ball is dead on the foul.

But, your wording, while I knew what you meant with your question, could be twisted such that it was asking something entirely different. So, let's do so just a bit to have some fun...

What if, with 2 seconds left on the clock, A1 attempts to heave a 75 foot shot from the backcourt FT lane but in doing so gets fouled such that the ball is deflected directly into the wrong basket.

I know this will not happen, but what if it did....what would you rule?

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correct. The ball is dead on the foul.

But, your wording, while I knew what you meant with your question, could be twisted such that it was asking something entirely different. So, let's do so just a bit to have some fun...

What if, with 2 seconds left on the clock, A1 attempts to heave a 75 foot shot from the backcourt FT lane but in doing so gets fouled such that the ball is deflected directly into the wrong basket.

I know this will not happen, but what if it did....what would you rule?

I want to say no because the ball becomes dead on a shot after a foul when it is obvious that the try is going to be unsuccessful. The player is shooting towards his own goal and a deflection /foul causing it to go into the wrong basket would certainly mean the try had ended prior to it going into the wrong basket.
But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

How could it be a shooting foul if the foul occurs after the ball is deflected into the wrong basket? And why did you clear the lane?

[representing]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correct. The ball is dead on the foul.

But, your wording, while I knew what you meant with your question, could be twisted such that it was asking something entirely different. So, let's do so just a bit to have some fun...

What if, with 2 seconds left on the clock, A1 attempts to heave a 75 foot shot from the backcourt FT lane but in doing so gets fouled such that the ball is deflected directly into the wrong basket.

I know this will not happen, but what if it did....what would you rule?

Not looking at the rulebook, I'm going to go with common sense and say that the reason a try can still happen while a player is in shooting motion and is fouled for is for advantage reasons. With this idea in mind, I would say the shot in the wrong basket is not an advantage to the offended team and will not count, and you continue with FTs for the offended player.

What do you think, Camron?

[representing]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I want to say no because the ball becomes dead on a shot after a foul when it is obvious that the try is going to be unsuccessful. The player is shooting towards his own goal and a deflection /foul causing it to go into the wrong basket would certainly mean the try had ended prior to it going into the wrong basket.
But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

Originally Posted by just another ref

How could it be a shooting foul if the foul occurs after the ball is deflected into the wrong basket? And why did you clear the lane?

If that ever happens to me, I'm running out of the gym and hanging up my whistle for good.

But, to keep this going, I'm going to say this, however I'm only guessing and have no idea what would be right or wrong... wrong basket is good off the deflection, foul is no longer a shooting foul because the ball has entered the opposing basket legally, making that play dead. If time was still on the clock at the point the foul occurred according to one of the officials, put time back on the clock and take the ball OOB closest to the spot of the foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

Not looking at the rulebook, I'm going to go with common sense and say that the reason a try can still happen while a player is in shooting motion and is fouled for is for advantage reasons. With this idea in mind, I would say the shot in the wrong basket is not an advantage to the offended team and will not count, and you continue with FTs for the offended player.

What do you think, Camron?

1. The player attempted to shoot towards his own basket, where the ball ended up is immaterial in deciding whether it is a shooting foul.

2. If a player is fouled while shooting towards his opponent's basket, that is not a shooting foul, and free throws are only granted if the bonus is in effect.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How could it be a shooting foul if the foul occurs after the ball is deflected into the wrong basket? And why did you clear the lane?

It is a shooting foul because he was heaving toward his own basket. If the deflection goes into the opposing teams basket and then he gets fouled on the way down, he was still in the act of shooting. Are you suggesting that because the ball entered the basket before the foul that the act of shooting has already ended or that because the ball is dead, any foul unless intentional or flagrant should be considered incidental?

The lane is cleared because time expired as the foul was committed. End of period so lanes cleared.

All of this is extremely hypothetical and pretty much impossible but what if...