"Shooting" at own basket

[constable]

Originally Posted by APG

I hope that FIBA rules are different on this play (which I don't think they are) cause that's a call that one of the officials has to make.

One thing FIBA does better than their North American counterparts is confusing people with their definition of "own" basket. That has to be the dumbest ****ing rule NFHS has.


16.2.2 If a player accidentally scores a field goal in his team’s own basket, the goal
counts two (2) points and shall be recorded as having been scored by the captain of
the opposing team on the playing court.
16.2.3 If a player deliberately scores a field goal in his team’s own basket, it is a violation
and the goal does not count.

[APG]

Originally Posted by constable

One thing FIBA does better than their North American counterparts is confusing people with their definition of "own" basket. That has to be the dumbest ****ing rule NFHS has.


16.2.2 If a player accidentally scores a field goal in his team’s own basket, the goal
counts two (2) points and shall be recorded as having been scored by the captain of
the opposing team on the playing court.
16.2.3 If a player deliberately scores a field goal in his team’s own basket, it is a violation
and the goal does not count.

I don't see how distinguishing it either way is any better then the other. It also sounds like FIBA took a page out of the NBA rule book in that it's also a violation to attempt a field goal at the wrong basket.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"Shooting" at own basket????

Darn it, I knew I shouldn't post when I'm in a hurry. You are all correct, they are "shooting" at the opponent's basket. Thanks for keeping me honest!

-Josh

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

does hitting the rim change anything ?

Assuming you mean "hitting only the rim", then yes.

It changes from a dribbling violation to a travelling violation.

[constable]

Originally Posted by APG

I don't see how distinguishing it either way is any better then the other. It also sounds like FIBA took a page out of the NBA rule book in that it's also a violation to attempt a field goal at the wrong basket.

Because NFHS is the only sport in the world where you don't defend your own goal.

[APG]

Originally Posted by constable

Because NFHS is the only sport in the world where you don't defend your own goal.

I'm sure you meant level...and under NCAA and NBA rules, one scores at their basket. In the basketball world, it would seem as though FIBA is "backwards"...not that it even matters.

[DRJ1960]

2 scrimmages, a dozen officials (including an NCAA official).... none would call any violation

[APG]

And when you presumably pulled out your case book and showed them the error of their ways, what did they say?

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by APG

And when you presumably pulled out your case book and showed them the error of their ways, what did they say?

When I ran back to locker room.... discovered that my case book was right where I had been reading it..... on my desk at home.....

e-mailed the whole group this thread last night when I got home.....

[JeroenB]

I don't have a violation here because the ball hit the ring on every shot attempt (as far as I can judge from the video). Hence it is not a double dribble violation (at least under FIBA rules, which I guess apply to this video).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

I don't have a violation here because the ball hit the ring on every shot attempt (as far as I can judge from the video). Hence it is not a double dribble violation (at least under FIBA rules, which I guess apply to this video).

1. I believe in fiba, it's a violation to shoot at the wrong basket in the first place.

Second, if it only hits the rim, did he really not move his pivot foot throughout all those attempts? Did all that take less than ten seconds?

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by Adam

1. I believe in fiba, it's a violation to shoot at the wrong basket in the first place.

Second, if it only hits the rim, did he really not move his pivot foot throughout all those attempts? Did all that take less than ten seconds?

1. It's not a violation to shoot at the wrong basket in FIBA, it's only a violation to deliberately score at the wrong basket.

2. It doesn't matter if it ONLY hits the rim or also the backboard, as long as it hits the ring the player is allowed to dribble again.

3. I was only referring to double dribble violations as I thought that was what the discussion was about. He did indeed move his pivot foot on the last attempt. Also I have an eight second violation (as in eight seconds to get the ball in the frontcourt, I assume that's what you ment with ten seconds, which I think is the rule in highschool/college basketball?), but not until the other player rebounds the ball and dribbles it towards the frontcourt.

[Adam]

Re #2, are you saying if a player dribbled to the wrong basket, picked up his dribble, and threw it at the ring, and caught it, he can dribble again?

I can't get the video to play, so I'm going off of ESPN memory.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

I don't have a violation here because the ball hit the ring on every shot attempt (as far as I can judge from the video). Hence it is not a double dribble violation (at least under FIBA rules, which I guess apply to this video).

Under FIBA rules would this be deemed not a shot attempt?

15.1.1 A shot for a field goal or a free throw is when the ball is held in a player’s hand(s) and is then thrown into the air towards the opponents' basket.

24.1.2 A dribble starts when a player, having gained control of a live ball on the playing court, throws, taps, rolls, dribbles it on the floor or deliberately throws it against the backboard and touches it again before it touches another player.

A dribble ends when the player touches the ball with both hands simultaneously or permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

24.1.4 The following are not dribbles:
• Successive shots for a field goal.

From reading that, I would come to the conclusion that it would be an illegal dribble. What am I missing?

[Freddy]

I put this clip out to various members of our association as an email discussion item, challenging them to determine what the official did wrong on this play.
#1 - Most popular response: OFFICIAL DID NOT HAVE A BACKCOURT TEN SECOND COUNT.
#2 - Second most popular response: DRIBBLING VIOLATION (ala Casebook 4.15...) BY REBOUNDER FOR REPEATED CONTACT WITH OPPONENTS' BACKBOARD.
#3 - Then this response trumped them all. (And I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, was it?): VIOLATION BY NON-LANE PLAYER WHO CROSSED THE THREE-POINT ARC BEFORE THE FREE THROW MADE CONTACT WITH THE BASKET OR BACKBOARD, WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED A DELAYED VIOLATION, RESULTING IN A SUBSTITUTE FREE THROW.

Turns out that original violater was the hapless rebounder.

#3 violation, if properly called, would have made officiating errors #2 and #1 irrelevant.

How could I have missed that??????????