"Shooting" at own basket

[APG]

Originally Posted by bainsey

This silly question got me thinking.

At first, I was thinking, if A-1 hits B's rim, and caught the "rebound," that's not a dribble. Further inspection of 4-15-1 tells me otherwise.

So, if A-2 purposely throws the ball against A's backboard, runs and catches it, then starts a dribble, that's legal, per 4-15-1. ("It is not part of a dribble when the ball touches the player's own backboard.") However, if A-2 purposely throws the ball against A's rim (NOT the backboard), catches it (yes, I know, very difficult), and starts a dribble, wouldn't that be illegal by rule? Or, is there a case that says it's all part of a try for goal?

A player throws the ball at his basket and it hits the rim. It's a try. Move on and don't consider anything else.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

does hitting the rim change anything ?

Assuming you mean "hitting only the rim", then yes.

It changes from a dribbling violation to a travelling violation.

[maven]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And, it should be a violation to embed something that starts with an ad.

OOB violation?

[brainbrian]

Originally Posted by jdmara

4.15.1 SITUATION C:

A1 attempts a pass to A2 during pressing action in A's backcourt. The ball hits B's backboard and deflects directly back to A1 who catches the ball and: (a) passes the ball to A2; or (b) starts a dribble.

RULING: The pass against B's backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball. In (a), the pass is legal action. In (b), it is a violation for a second dribble. (4-4-5; 9-5)

I think 4.15.4 SITUATION C applies better in this case, it's not really a "pass."

After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent’s backboard and catches the rebound;
RULING: A1 has violated in (a). Throwing the ball against the opponent’s backboard constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the board.

Edit: I also like the fact the shot clock operator had enough sense not to reset it here every shot.

[Adam]

As has been noted, subtly, already, the thread title is misleading.

A's basket is the one in which they attempt to score.

This isn't soccre.

[JeroenB]

I don't have a violation here because the ball hit the ring on every shot attempt (as far as I can judge from the video). Hence it is not a double dribble violation (at least under FIBA rules, which I guess apply to this video).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

I don't have a violation here because the ball hit the ring on every shot attempt (as far as I can judge from the video). Hence it is not a double dribble violation (at least under FIBA rules, which I guess apply to this video).

1. I believe in fiba, it's a violation to shoot at the wrong basket in the first place.

Second, if it only hits the rim, did he really not move his pivot foot throughout all those attempts? Did all that take less than ten seconds?

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by Adam

1. I believe in fiba, it's a violation to shoot at the wrong basket in the first place.

Second, if it only hits the rim, did he really not move his pivot foot throughout all those attempts? Did all that take less than ten seconds?

1. It's not a violation to shoot at the wrong basket in FIBA, it's only a violation to deliberately score at the wrong basket.

2. It doesn't matter if it ONLY hits the rim or also the backboard, as long as it hits the ring the player is allowed to dribble again.

3. I was only referring to double dribble violations as I thought that was what the discussion was about. He did indeed move his pivot foot on the last attempt. Also I have an eight second violation (as in eight seconds to get the ball in the frontcourt, I assume that's what you ment with ten seconds, which I think is the rule in highschool/college basketball?), but not until the other player rebounds the ball and dribbles it towards the frontcourt.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

I don't have a violation here because the ball hit the ring on every shot attempt (as far as I can judge from the video). Hence it is not a double dribble violation (at least under FIBA rules, which I guess apply to this video).

Under FIBA rules would this be deemed not a shot attempt?

15.1.1 A shot for a field goal or a free throw is when the ball is held in a player’s hand(s) and is then thrown into the air towards the opponents' basket.

24.1.2 A dribble starts when a player, having gained control of a live ball on the playing court, throws, taps, rolls, dribbles it on the floor or deliberately throws it against the backboard and touches it again before it touches another player.

A dribble ends when the player touches the ball with both hands simultaneously or permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

24.1.4 The following are not dribbles:
• Successive shots for a field goal.

From reading that, I would come to the conclusion that it would be an illegal dribble. What am I missing?

[Freddy]

I put this clip out to various members of our association as an email discussion item, challenging them to determine what the official did wrong on this play.
#1 - Most popular response: OFFICIAL DID NOT HAVE A BACKCOURT TEN SECOND COUNT.
#2 - Second most popular response: DRIBBLING VIOLATION (ala Casebook 4.15...) BY REBOUNDER FOR REPEATED CONTACT WITH OPPONENTS' BACKBOARD.
#3 - Then this response trumped them all. (And I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, was it?): VIOLATION BY NON-LANE PLAYER WHO CROSSED THE THREE-POINT ARC BEFORE THE FREE THROW MADE CONTACT WITH THE BASKET OR BACKBOARD, WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED A DELAYED VIOLATION, RESULTING IN A SUBSTITUTE FREE THROW.

Turns out that original violater was the hapless rebounder.

#3 violation, if properly called, would have made officiating errors #2 and #1 irrelevant.

How could I have missed that??????????

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by APG

Under FIBA rules would this be deemed not a shot attempt?

15.1.1 A shot for a field goal or a free throw is when the ball is held in a player’s hand(s) and is then thrown into the air towards the opponents' basket.

24.1.2 A dribble starts when a player, having gained control of a live ball on the playing court, throws, taps, rolls, dribbles it on the floor or deliberately throws it against the backboard and touches it again before it touches another player.

A dribble ends when the player touches the ball with both hands simultaneously or permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

24.1.4 The following are not dribbles:
• Successive shots for a field goal.

From reading that, I would come to the conclusion that it would be an illegal dribble. What am I missing?

According to the FIBA Interpretations 2012, Art. 24, Statement 1, it is considered a dribble when "a player deliberately throws the ball against a backboard (not attempting a legitimate shot for a field goal)".

Based on 15.1.1 you could indeed very well argue that the attempts in the video are not legitimate shots because they are directed at his own basket. However, since this player obviously believes the basket to be its' opponents basket and his intent is to score (after all, if he made the basket it would still count as under FIBA Interpretations Art. 9, Statement 2, Example 2) and not to gain an unfair advantage by passing the ball to himself, I would call it a legimitate attempt to score and therefor not a violation.