"Shooting" at own basket

[jeremy341a]

Anyone else think it is a violation that they make you watch the advertisement at the start of the video and then tell you the video is no longer avaliable? Seems like a flagrant tech to me.

[maven]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Anyone else think it is a violation that they make you watch the advertisement at the start of the video and then tell you the video is no longer avaliable? Seems like a flagrant tech to me.

See post #2.

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by APG

Under FIBA rules would this be deemed not a shot attempt?

15.1.1 A shot for a field goal or a free throw is when the ball is held in a player’s hand(s) and is then thrown into the air towards the opponents' basket.

24.1.2 A dribble starts when a player, having gained control of a live ball on the playing court, throws, taps, rolls, dribbles it on the floor or deliberately throws it against the backboard and touches it again before it touches another player.

A dribble ends when the player touches the ball with both hands simultaneously or permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

24.1.4 The following are not dribbles:
• Successive shots for a field goal.

From reading that, I would come to the conclusion that it would be an illegal dribble. What am I missing?

According to the FIBA Interpretations 2012, Art. 24, Statement 1, it is considered a dribble when "a player deliberately throws the ball against a backboard (not attempting a legitimate shot for a field goal)".

Based on 15.1.1 you could indeed very well argue that the attempts in the video are not legitimate shots because they are directed at his own basket. However, since this player obviously believes the basket to be its' opponents basket and his intent is to score (after all, if he made the basket it would still count as under FIBA Interpretations Art. 9, Statement 2, Example 2) and not to gain an unfair advantage by passing the ball to himself, I would call it a legimitate attempt to score and therefor not a violation.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by maven

See post #2.

I seen that but now it has an advertisement and then no video.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Anyone else think it is a violation that they make you watch the advertisement at the start of the video and then tell you the video is no longer available? Seems like a flagrant tech to me.

Definitely flagrant. I wanted to take another look at the free throw violation that I missed the first time. Too late. The video has now disappeared into cyberspace.

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I put this clip out to various members of our association as an email discussion item, challenging them to determine what the official did wrong on this play.
#1 - Most popular response: OFFICIAL DID NOT HAVE A BACKCOURT TEN SECOND COUNT.
#2 - Second most popular response: DRIBBLING VIOLATION (ala Casebook 4.15...) BY REBOUNDER FOR REPEATED CONTACT WITH OPPONENTS' BACKBOARD.
#3 - Then this response trumped them all. (And I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, was it?): VIOLATION BY NON-LANE PLAYER WHO CROSSED THE THREE-POINT ARC BEFORE THE FREE THROW MADE CONTACT WITH THE BASKET OR BACKBOARD, WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED A DELAYED VIOLATION, RESULTING IN A SUBSTITUTE FREE THROW.

Turns out that original violater was the hapless rebounder.

#3 violation, if properly called, would have made officiating errors #2 and #1 irrelevant.

How could I have missed that??????????

#1 Yes, actually an eight second backcourt count since it's FIBA basketball.

#2 No, not in my opinion, see my previous post(s).

#3 Absolutely right, very well spotted.

PS: calm down on the caps

[APG]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

Based on 15.1.1 you could indeed very well argue that the attempts in the video are not legitimate shots because they are directed at his own basket. However, since this player obviously believes the basket to be its' opponents basket and his intent is to score (after all, if he made the basket it would still count as under FIBA Interpretations Art. 9, Statement 2, Example 2) and not to gain an unfair advantage by passing the ball to himself, I would call it a legimitate attempt to score and therefor not a violation.

I'd be interested to see if that's what others would call under FIBA rules. It seems pretty clear to me that a shot attempt can only be attempted at the correct basket. Everything under article 15 (player in the act of shooting) involves the player shooting at the correct basket. It would seem backwards to me (and I'm not saying you're wrong), to not apply it in this case.

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Definitely flagrant. I wanted to take another look at the free throw violation that I missed the first time. Too late. The video has now disappeared into cyberspace.

Here it is:

Belgian Basketball Player Can't Make a Lay Up On His Own Goal - YouTube

[JeroenB]

Originally Posted by APG

I'd be interested to see if that's what others would call under FIBA rules. It seems pretty clear to me that a shot attempt can only be attempted at the correct basket. Everything under article 15 (player in the act of shooting) involves the player shooting at the correct basket. It would seem backwards to me (and I'm not saying you're wrong), to not apply it in this case.

I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, nor that I'm right (allthough in my initial post I was convinced I was right ). However, because he doesn't place himself at an unfair advantage (quite the opposite I'd say), I would not call it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by APG

I don't see how distinguishing it either way is any better then the other. It also sounds like FIBA took a page out of the NBA rule book in that it's also a violation to attempt a field goal at the wrong basket.

The only way to know is to compare the histories and rationales within each code.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

PS: calm down on the caps

OOPS . . . SORRY 'BOUT THAT

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

#1 Yes, actually an eight second backcourt count since it's FIBA basketball.

#2 No, not in my opinion, see my previous post(s).

#3 Absolutely right, very well spotted.

PS: calm down on the caps

Re your second point, I disagree. After watching the video now, I'm convinced every attempt hits the backboard. So, I have an illegal dribble after he catches his second "rebound."

Before that, however, I have a traveling violation as soon as he catches the first rebound. He gets the original rebound airborne, lands, jumps again, and "shoots." Once he catches that ball again (whether or not it hits the backboard), it's a travel.

Of course, before that was the delayed FT violation.

[Sharpshooternes]

T-Mac Alley Oop to himself All Star 2004 - YouTube, Sorry I don't know how to imbed. And hit the skip ad button.

Added by APG:

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

T-Mac Alley Oop to himself All Star 2004 - YouTube, Sorry I don't know how to imbed. And hit the skip add button.

Count the basket. Consider the first release to be a try, despite any obvious evidence to the contrary.

[APG]

The ruling in your play is you might just end up on your local new's top 10 plays...but hopefully not as that one official that incorrectly waved a play off.