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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 18, 2001, 01:14am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

I didn't say that tossing the ball at the official is a violation. I'm saying if the ball hits the official, who's OOB, it's a violation. I'm also not necessarily advocating calling it. I would probably step out of the way and call the ball OOB when it hit the bleachers, a fan or something else that was OOB. But I would love to see the rule that states that it isn't a violation. Can you supply it?
Yes. Rule 4-4-2. "A ball which touches...an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's location"

Camron - where the heck have you been? I knew you would find the rule reference to back up my contention, just like you always do. However, I think you mean 4-4-4, not 4-4-2. Also, it's nice to know that I am not a wall, although some coaches have told me my head is made of brick.


[Edited by Mark Padgett on May 18th, 2001 at 01:17 AM]
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 18, 2001, 08:56am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

I didn't say that tossing the ball at the official is a violation. I'm saying if the ball hits the official, who's OOB, it's a violation. I'm also not necessarily advocating calling it. I would probably step out of the way and call the ball OOB when it hit the bleachers, a fan or something else that was OOB. But I would love to see the rule that states that it isn't a violation. Can you supply it?

Yes. Rule 4-4-2. "A ball which touches...an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's location"
Thank you! That's what I wanted. Someone to back up his argument with a rule!

4-4-4 is applies to the location of the ball when it hits a player or an official. But I'm not convinced that it applies in an OOB sitch. The rule is very clear that if the ball is passed, it must be to a teammate who is OOB or passed directly inbounds. A player who tosses the ball to the official has done neither.

If A1 has the ball inbounds, throws it and hits the back of the backboard, it IS the same as hitting the floor OOB, because the back of the backboard is OOB.

I believe this to be one of the situations that is not covered specifically by the rules. When we make an interpretation, we can apply different rules and come up with different interpretations. Might be a good one to ask your Mr. Mayo about! [/B]
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 18, 2001, 10:09am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef


If A1 has the ball inbounds, throws it and hits the back of the backboard, it IS the same as hitting the floor OOB, because the back of the backboard is OOB.

I believe this to be one of the situations that is not covered specifically by the rules. When we make an interpretation, we can apply different rules and come up with different interpretations. Might be a good one to ask your Mr. Mayo about!
Tony, I understand what you're getting at and it's never a
bad idea to get an official interp on these fuzzy plays.
But IMO the rules seem to be pretty clear. The player is allowed to bounce the ball, or pass the ball OOB after a
made basket. If he passes the ball OOB I don't believe he
is restricted from catching his own pass OOB (travel &
dribble rules don't apply). If we agree on this then I
think it follows that the ball can bounce off the OOB official & be retrieved. If the ball deflects off the OOB
official & goes inbounds it's a throw-in violation when
touched by a team mate. If the official was standing
in bounds & the ball deflects back OOB we have an OOB
violation. If the official was leaning against the wall or
sitting up in the basket supports then we have a violation. But in this case we have nothing.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 18, 2001, 08:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

Tony, I understand what you're getting at and it's never a
bad idea to get an official interp on these fuzzy plays.
But IMO the rules seem to be pretty clear. The player is allowed to bounce the ball, or pass the ball OOB after a
made basket. If he passes the ball OOB I don't believe he
is restricted from catching his own pass OOB (travel &
dribble rules don't apply). If we agree on this then I
think it follows that the ball can bounce off the OOB official & be retrieved.
I don't know as I necessarily agree with that but I've already stated my case, so I won't go into it much further. I'll just say that the RB states that the ball must be passed to a teammate, inbounds or OOB, or passed directly inbounds. The book doesn't say he can pass it any other way. If he passed it off an opponent who was OOB, the ball would be OOB on the opponent. I still think that, technically without any type of exception to that rule, it's a violation.

Quote:
If the ball deflects off the OOB official & goes inbounds it's a throw-in violation when
touched by a team mate.
Agreed, unless it's considered a violation as soon as it touches the official. But if this play was specificall addressed, I could accept that interpretation.

Quote:
If the official was standing in bounds & the ball deflects back OOB we have an OOB violation.
Obviously. Where's the spot?

Quote:
If the official was leaning against the wall or sitting up in the basket supports then we have a violation. But in this case we have nothing.
Hmmm. I'm not going there but I would love to know where I can find that one in the RB!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 20, 2001, 08:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

If the official was standing in bounds & the ball deflects back OOB we have an OOB violation.


Obviously. Where's the spot?


Great question. Obviuosly it's at the original throw in
spot, since it went OOB without touching a player.

Quote:
If the official was leaning against the wall or sitting up in the basket supports then we have a violation. But in this case we have nothing.
Hmmm. I'm not going there but I would love to know where I can find that one in the RB!


Sure, this is NCAA or NF rules modified for AAU. These
modifications state a ref can lean against the wall during
throw-ins any time after the 3rd consecutive game. Further,
if at least 2 of these games were 13U or younger the
ref can observe throw-ins while sitting in the backboard supports (it's a safety and/or sanity issue).
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 20, 2001, 09:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

If the official was standing in bounds & the ball deflects back OOB we have an OOB violation.


Obviously. Where's the spot?


Great question. Obviously it's at the original throw in
spot, since it went OOB without touching a player.
Yep! We discussed that one a few weeks ago!
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