A simple yes or no......

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

That's right. They should be playing on the swings and with dolls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

I'm posting this as me, and not as an admin...

I'm sorry if this offends, Mike... but considering who you are this continual beratement of places that play 8U seriously is insulting. There IS good 8U ball out there. Perhaps you don't have it in your neck of the woods, but it exists, and in areas where it exists, it should be encouraged, not insulted.

[Rich]

I don't get it either. After all, 8U includes girls who turned 9 in January (as my daughter, did). I have girls that are 7, 8, and 9. We go no more than 2 hours away, stay in a hotel room, take over the pool, have some fun family memories.

It isn't all THAT serious. We get umpires, for the most part, that you just have to tolerate. Lots of teenagers working with balloons and no shin guards. And the occasional power-tripping guy, apparently, that hit me when I wasn't looking.

I started the season batting them numerically in the order (from 2 down to 33) and only adjusted the lineups recently. I play all the girls in the infield and outfield. I use 4-5 pitchers (they have to get it to the plate) and 4-5 girls who want to try catching. All girls sit out about the same number of innings.

I'd be happy to umpire the games myself with a coach from the other team on the bases, but that's just not how it's done, here.

(But if you umpired for me, you'd make $100 for a DH or $75 if I hired 2 umpires. Why? Cause I'm an umpire and for those game fees, I'm hiring guys that are not only good umpires, but actually act like they want to be there. BTW, I hire one if I know that one can handle it.)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rich

...We get umpires, for the most part, that you just have to tolerate...

So, which is better, umpires you have to tolerate, or games umpired by coaches or dads?

Hiring umpires, especially the kind you describe, for 8U ball does seem like an unnecessary expense.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, which is better, umpires you have to tolerate, or games umpired by coaches or dads?

Hiring umpires, especially the kind you describe, for 8U ball does seem like an unnecessary expense.

We're playing in a league where each town has 1-3 teams. I'd be happy to not hire umpires and do the games myself (and let my assistants coach), but I've been told it's a bad idea.

We did a ton of fundraising and received a number of sponsorships, so whether I hire a HS kid for $30/game or a top umpire for $50/game isn't a big deal. It's a bigger deal that I get umpires that don't call strikes over my kids' heads. Working really hard for them to swing at good pitches and it's amazing how quickly that gets undone by someone who calls nose-high strikes.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rich

...it's amazing how quickly that gets undone by someone who calls nose-high strikes.

So, when you DO umpire games at this level (or even a bit higher level), how many complaints do you get from parents, fans, maybe even coaches, when you DO NOT call nose-high strikes!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, when you DO umpire games at this level (or even a bit higher level), how many complaints do you get from parents, fans, maybe even coaches, when you DO NOT call nose-high strikes!

I umpire baseball games at this level for Little League. I may widen the zone a bit and use every bit of the knee, etc. but I don't go above the shoulders. Others' mileage may vary.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich

We're playing in a league where each town has 1-3 teams. I'd be happy to not hire umpires and do the games myself (and let my assistants coach), but I've been told it's a bad idea.

We did a ton of fundraising and received a number of sponsorships, so whether I hire a HS kid for $30/game or a top umpire for $50/game isn't a big deal. It's a bigger deal that I get umpires that don't call strikes over my kids' heads. Working really hard for them to swing at good pitches and it's amazing how quickly that gets undone by someone who calls nose-high strikes.

I agree about the nose high strikes. We are repeatedly instructed to increase the size of the strike zone to "move the game along". I disagree with this in the majority of cases because it teaches bad habits. Now will I go an inch on either side of the plate? Yeah, but I'm not calling a pitch 6 inches high, low, inside or outside a strike. By forcing players to swing at pitches way out of the zone you are teaching them bad mechanics. Why? To speed the game along.

I think a lot of leagues need to look at the reason they have 8U and up softball. Is it to be competitive, or is it to teach the skills so the players can play at a higher level in the future.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I agree about the nose high strikes. We are repeatedly instructed to increase the size of the strike zone to "move the game along". I disagree with this in the majority of cases because it teaches bad habits. Now will I go an inch on either side of the plate? Yeah, but I'm not calling a pitch 6 inches high, low, inside or outside a strike. By forcing players to swing at pitches way out of the zone you are teaching them bad mechanics. Why? To speed the game along.

I think a lot of leagues need to look at the reason they have 8U and up softball. Is it to be competitive, or is it to teach the skills so the players can play at a higher level in the future.

For us, there's no point in speeding the game along. In this tourney, it was coach pitch after 4 balls and we had a 75 minute time limit.

I think it's possible to do both. We play the games because the girls love it. Even when they lose, it's forgotten minutes later. But you can't simply practice all the time - kids get bored with drill after drill after drill.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm posting this as me, and not as an admin...

I'm sorry if this offends, Mike... but considering who you are this continual beratement of places that play 8U seriously is insulting. There IS good 8U ball out there. Perhaps you don't have it in your neck of the woods, but it exists, and in areas where it exists, it should be encouraged, not insulted.

To start, I don't get offended. That is a wasted and self-inflicted emotion.

8U needs coaches, not umpires. They do not need the BS that goes with competition at that age whether you think it is good ball or not.

Look at all the drama in this simple case, whether from a lousy or power-tripping umpire or the coaches and/or parents.

It is and always has been my opinion that at that age, the priority should be instruction, not competition.

I'm glad that Rich's team doesn't take it that serious, but that is some really serious money and I'm willing to bet there is a parent to two already getting their pens out to endorse an NLI

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, I don't get offended. That is a wasted and self-inflicted emotion.

8U needs coaches, not umpires. They do not need the BS that goes with competition at that age whether you think it is good ball or not.

Look at all the drama in this simple case, whether from a lousy or power-tripping umpire or the coaches and/or parents.

It is and always has been my opinion that at that age, the priority should be instruction, not competition.

I'm glad that Rich's team doesn't take it that serious, but that is some really serious money and I'm willing to bet there is a parent to two already getting their pens out to endorse an NLI

I could send you a couple of emails I've gotten from parents.

Too bad for them I don't really give a flying you-know-what what they think.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

Yours was one of the answers I wanted.