A simple yes or no......

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Rich

I love these stories.

I have one of my own.

I'm coaching my daughter's softball team this summer. 8U. I'd give anything for girls that could catch, pitch, hit, etc. but we're having fun and we're doing OK. We're playing a lot of 10U teams and actually won a 10U tournament a few weeks ago.

We're at a tournament this past weekend and end up the 3 seed out of 12 teams. We had a game against the 6 seed on Sunday to advance to the semifinal.

One umpire with a HS player on the bases. Hey, he was actually dressed in a uniform, which isn't a usual thing for us. At this age level, there are so many modified rules I have a hard time keeping them straight, so it's no big surprise that they are different from game to game and umpire to umpire.

First inning of the game, there was a throw that got through at second base. My runner came to third and I sent her home. The plate umpire yelled at me and the runner, "ONE BASE ON AN OVERTHROW!" I was a bit stunned, but figured that was one of the day's modifications, so I said, "No problem. If I run a girl too far, just let me know and we'll put her back."

"IF YOU KNOW THE RULE, WHY WOULD YOU RUN HER?" Top of his lungs.

Wow.

Next inning, I had a legitimate question about a rule modification. I asked for time, was granted it, and walked calmly to the plate umpire to ask the question. Before I could get a sentence out, he yelled at me, "SHUT UP AND GET BACK IN THE DUGOUT."

Stunned, I went back towards the dugout and the umpire followed me. I turned towards him and he then said, "ONE MORE WORD OUT OF YOU AND YOU'RE GONE."

I was so stunned that I think I said, "But..." and just like that, he ejected me.

I walked out without saying a word and ended up on a picnic bench in left field. After I left, one of my parents said something and he turned and yelled through the fence, "SHUT UP OR YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE."

The tournament director was sympathetic and came and talked to me and said I could return to the tourney if my team won. We didn't. My kid was an absolute basket case, but she pitched the next inning really well.

So there it is. My first career ejection on the other side. I still don't know what hit me, other than the worst umpire I've ever seen.

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

[Rich]

I just took a job as a high school commissioner here. That means I hire all varsity officials for 21 schools for all sports, softball included.

On Saturday, I watched a father/son team deal with the biggest jerk coach I ever saw - and this was also at the 8U level. He finally got ejected and then pulled his team from the field and forfeited.

The tournament allowed the team to play the next day, but the coach wasn't there.

After our game, during which they were absolutely great, I hired those two officials. The base umpire is the only 8U guy I've seen all summer who actually pivoted in and RAN from position to position. I was impressed. They maintained their cool and control when the coach lost his marbles. They were friendly and approachable. No clue if they have the talent to work HS varsity games, but they have all the people skills I could ever want.

On Sunday after my ejection, the first thing I did was make sure that the umpire on the plate is NOT on the conference staff. Figured he wasn't, but wanted to make sure. If he was, he wouldn't be after that display.

Our tournament director (we run two tournaments) has removed umpires (part of the deal with the assignor) for various reasons. Not often. Once this season, when he allowed a 14U travel team to play with 4 outfielders and then wouldn't listen to the other coach's complaints about it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

If I observed it, I would send him home after the game with my thanks and cross him off my list. There are things that you can fix with umpires... most things in fact. But in all my years, I have never seen a guy like this guy change his tune, no matter how hard you try.

Verifiable report? If it came from a very small handful of people, I'd do as described above. If it came from anyone else - I'd have a word with him and decide from his demeanor when explaining his side of the story whether to keep him or not --- and if I kept him, I'd make sure I had the opportunity to watch him discreetly as often as possible.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If I observed it, I would send him home after the game with my thanks and cross him off my list. There are things that you can fix with umpires... most things in fact. But in all my years, I have never seen a guy like this guy change his tune, no matter how hard you try.

Verifiable report? If it came from a very small handful of people, I'd do as described above. If it came from anyone else - I'd have a word with him and decide from his demeanor when explaining his side of the story whether to keep him or not --- and if I kept him, I'd make sure I had the opportunity to watch him discreetly as often as possible.

Very well said...and my thoughts as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

That's right. They should be playing on the swings and with dolls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

I'm posting this as me, and not as an admin...

I'm sorry if this offends, Mike... but considering who you are this continual beratement of places that play 8U seriously is insulting. There IS good 8U ball out there. Perhaps you don't have it in your neck of the woods, but it exists, and in areas where it exists, it should be encouraged, not insulted.

[Rich]

I don't get it either. After all, 8U includes girls who turned 9 in January (as my daughter, did). I have girls that are 7, 8, and 9. We go no more than 2 hours away, stay in a hotel room, take over the pool, have some fun family memories.

It isn't all THAT serious. We get umpires, for the most part, that you just have to tolerate. Lots of teenagers working with balloons and no shin guards. And the occasional power-tripping guy, apparently, that hit me when I wasn't looking.

I started the season batting them numerically in the order (from 2 down to 33) and only adjusted the lineups recently. I play all the girls in the infield and outfield. I use 4-5 pitchers (they have to get it to the plate) and 4-5 girls who want to try catching. All girls sit out about the same number of innings.

I'd be happy to umpire the games myself with a coach from the other team on the bases, but that's just not how it's done, here.

(But if you umpired for me, you'd make $100 for a DH or $75 if I hired 2 umpires. Why? Cause I'm an umpire and for those game fees, I'm hiring guys that are not only good umpires, but actually act like they want to be there. BTW, I hire one if I know that one can handle it.)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rich

...We get umpires, for the most part, that you just have to tolerate...

So, which is better, umpires you have to tolerate, or games umpired by coaches or dads?

Hiring umpires, especially the kind you describe, for 8U ball does seem like an unnecessary expense.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, which is better, umpires you have to tolerate, or games umpired by coaches or dads?

Hiring umpires, especially the kind you describe, for 8U ball does seem like an unnecessary expense.

We're playing in a league where each town has 1-3 teams. I'd be happy to not hire umpires and do the games myself (and let my assistants coach), but I've been told it's a bad idea.

We did a ton of fundraising and received a number of sponsorships, so whether I hire a HS kid for $30/game or a top umpire for $50/game isn't a big deal. It's a bigger deal that I get umpires that don't call strikes over my kids' heads. Working really hard for them to swing at good pitches and it's amazing how quickly that gets undone by someone who calls nose-high strikes.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rich

...it's amazing how quickly that gets undone by someone who calls nose-high strikes.

So, when you DO umpire games at this level (or even a bit higher level), how many complaints do you get from parents, fans, maybe even coaches, when you DO NOT call nose-high strikes!

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich

We're playing in a league where each town has 1-3 teams. I'd be happy to not hire umpires and do the games myself (and let my assistants coach), but I've been told it's a bad idea.

We did a ton of fundraising and received a number of sponsorships, so whether I hire a HS kid for $30/game or a top umpire for $50/game isn't a big deal. It's a bigger deal that I get umpires that don't call strikes over my kids' heads. Working really hard for them to swing at good pitches and it's amazing how quickly that gets undone by someone who calls nose-high strikes.

I agree about the nose high strikes. We are repeatedly instructed to increase the size of the strike zone to "move the game along". I disagree with this in the majority of cases because it teaches bad habits. Now will I go an inch on either side of the plate? Yeah, but I'm not calling a pitch 6 inches high, low, inside or outside a strike. By forcing players to swing at pitches way out of the zone you are teaching them bad mechanics. Why? To speed the game along.

I think a lot of leagues need to look at the reason they have 8U and up softball. Is it to be competitive, or is it to teach the skills so the players can play at a higher level in the future.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm posting this as me, and not as an admin...

I'm sorry if this offends, Mike... but considering who you are this continual beratement of places that play 8U seriously is insulting. There IS good 8U ball out there. Perhaps you don't have it in your neck of the woods, but it exists, and in areas where it exists, it should be encouraged, not insulted.

To start, I don't get offended. That is a wasted and self-inflicted emotion.

8U needs coaches, not umpires. They do not need the BS that goes with competition at that age whether you think it is good ball or not.

Look at all the drama in this simple case, whether from a lousy or power-tripping umpire or the coaches and/or parents.

It is and always has been my opinion that at that age, the priority should be instruction, not competition.

I'm glad that Rich's team doesn't take it that serious, but that is some really serious money and I'm willing to bet there is a parent to two already getting their pens out to endorse an NLI

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, I don't get offended. That is a wasted and self-inflicted emotion.

8U needs coaches, not umpires. They do not need the BS that goes with competition at that age whether you think it is good ball or not.

Look at all the drama in this simple case, whether from a lousy or power-tripping umpire or the coaches and/or parents.

It is and always has been my opinion that at that age, the priority should be instruction, not competition.

I'm glad that Rich's team doesn't take it that serious, but that is some really serious money and I'm willing to bet there is a parent to two already getting their pens out to endorse an NLI

I could send you a couple of emails I've gotten from parents.

Too bad for them I don't really give a flying you-know-what what they think.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

Yours was one of the answers I wanted.