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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 02:49pm
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The Simple Things

While I'm rolling on simplification......

Have you ever wondered why the rules addressing the infield fly specify that first & second, or first, second and third are occupied?

Why is third base even mentioned since we all know that the occupation of that base is irrelevant to the rule?
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 02:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
While I'm rolling on simplification......

Have you ever wondered why the rules addressing the infield fly specify that first & second, or first, second and third are occupied?

Why is third base even mentioned since we all know that the occupation of that base is irrelevant to the rule?
I prefer the line, "Anytime with less than 2 outs there's a force play at third base..."
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 03:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
While I'm rolling on simplification......

Have you ever wondered why the rules addressing the infield fly specify that first & second, or first, second and third are occupied?

Why is third base even mentioned since we all know that the occupation of that base is irrelevant to the rule?
Because if you only had first and second listed for the condition then it wouldn't be in effect if the bases were loaded.

Before you say "BUT!" - think it through again.
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:54pm
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Because if you only had first and second listed for the condition then it wouldn't be in effect if the bases were loaded.

Before you say "BUT!" - think it through again.
BUT the statement/rule is worded for the stupid.

The requirement is met when there is a runner on 1st base and a runner on 2nd base. If the bases are loaded, is that requirement still not met? Is there not still a runner on 1st base and a runner on 2nd base?

Trying to justify the stance that too many runners on base negates a given rule is just as moronic as all the idiots screaming "it's in the hole" on every tee shot.
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:12pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
BUT the statement/rule is worded for the stupid.

The requirement is met when there is a runner on 1st base and a runner on 2nd base. If the bases are loaded, is that requirement still not met? Is there not still a runner on 1st base and a runner on 2nd base?

Trying to justify the stance that too many runners on base negates a given rule is just as moronic as all the idiots screaming "it's in the hole" on every tee shot.
It's worded for the connivers. Their argument would be that "It wasn't runners on first and second, it was runners on first, second, and third." IOW "It's only in effect when there are just runners on first and second". Technically correct. A lot of laws/rules get written/rewritten becasue some clever person found the loophole. The wording you don't like fixes it.
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I prefer the line, "Anytime with less than 2 outs there's a force play at third base..."
Agreed on the unnecessary wording in the book, and I too prefer to break it down Rich's way.


Similarly, ASA 8-2-J could be reworded to "When an infielder intentionally drops a caught fair fly ball, when there is less than two outs and first base is occupied at the time of the pitch."
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:09pm
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
It's worded for the connivers. Their argument would be that "It wasn't runners on first and second, it was runners on first, second, and third." IOW "It's only in effect when there are just runners on first and second". Technically correct. A lot of laws/rules get written/rewritten becasue some clever person found the loophole. The wording you don't like fixes it.
Judge: You have been found guilty in two counts of murder and are sentenced to life in prison.
Criminal: But your honor, I didn't kill two people, I killed three.
Judge: Three? Well, in that case you cannot be guilty of killing only two people. You are free to go. Thanks for stopping by.
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
It's worded for the connivers. Their argument would be that "It wasn't runners on first and second, it was runners on first, second, and third." IOW "It's only in effect when there are just runners on first and second". Technically correct. A lot of laws/rules get written/rewritten becasue some clever person found the loophole. The wording you don't like fixes it.
This, and I've discovered there many more of these types in softball than baseball.
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 07:38pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Judge: You have been found guilty in two counts of murder and are sentenced to life in prison.
Criminal: But your honor, I didn't kill two people, I killed three.
Judge: Three? Well, in that case you cannot be guilty of killing only two people. You are free to go. Thanks for stopping by.
Doesn't work that way. There would be separate counts for each person, not one count of killing two. You'd be found guilty twice - once for each.

Nice try though.
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Old Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:08pm
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Doesn't work that way. There would be separate counts for each person, not one count of killing two. You'd be found guilty twice - once for each.

Nice try though.
Really? That's the way they do it?
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Old Mon Apr 15, 2013, 06:54am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I prefer the line, "Anytime with less than 2 outs there's a force play at third base..."
And since we are harping over language, it's actually "fewer" than 2 outs. Not "less" than two outs.
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Old Mon Apr 15, 2013, 08:27am
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Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
And since we are harping over language, it's actually "fewer" than 2 outs. Not "less" than two outs.
I know the difference and could care less (yes, I did that on purpose).

(Do you tell grocery store managers that their express lanes should say "10 items or fewer"? )
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Old Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:23am
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A little off-topic, but somewhat related:

To date, pro baseball rules still state, "If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off play."

I've always wondered why they just don't remove the words I underlined. I mean, why bother?
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Old Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:50am
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
A little off-topic, but somewhat related:

To date, pro baseball rules still state, "If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off play."

I've always wondered why they just don't remove the words I underlined. I mean, why bother?
Personally, I think the entire rule is crap. Why not just force the pitcher to tell the runner where the ball is going.
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Old Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:02pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
(Do you tell grocery store managers that their express lanes should say "10 items or fewer"? )
I have and also that 15 is not 10 or fewer.
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