A simple yes or no......

[chapmaja]

Reminds me of a story I heard from a HS game.

One of our trainers is working the plate and the other umpire (who will be called Bob) is on the bases. Runners on first and third, so the base umpire is in the C position.

Pitch comes in and there is a snap throw from the catcher to first. All the base umpire can see is A&E. What does he call? Safe? Out? Nope, his response was to point to the plate umpire and yell "bad angle!" The plate umpire said he was so in shock, he went completely blank on what he saw and the only thing he could do was single safe. He said to this day he has no idea if she was safe or out at first, but since he could not see her out (or remember what he saw), he had to call her safe.

And no, I was not umpiring, so I am not Bob. This story predates my umpiring softball regularly.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

no idea if she was safe or out at first, but since he could not see her out (or remember what he saw), he had to call her safe.

yep!

[tcannizzo]

R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B, B3 hits ground ball to F6.
R1 passes right in front of F6 who fields the ball cleanly. No call by BU.
R1 then made a herky-jerky step and then started slowing down (presumably the ball may have nicked her foot thinking she was going to be called out.)

After play BU wanted to ask me if he should call the runner out "because she called herself out".

I asked simply did you see the ball hit her foot? Yes or No.

I know that I did not see the ball hit her foot and neither did BU.
No call.

[Rich]

I love these stories.

I have one of my own.

I'm coaching my daughter's softball team this summer. 8U. I'd give anything for girls that could catch, pitch, hit, etc. but we're having fun and we're doing OK. We're playing a lot of 10U teams and actually won a 10U tournament a few weeks ago.

We're at a tournament this past weekend and end up the 3 seed out of 12 teams. We had a game against the 6 seed on Sunday to advance to the semifinal.

One umpire with a HS player on the bases. Hey, he was actually dressed in a uniform, which isn't a usual thing for us. At this age level, there are so many modified rules I have a hard time keeping them straight, so it's no big surprise that they are different from game to game and umpire to umpire.

First inning of the game, there was a throw that got through at second base. My runner came to third and I sent her home. The plate umpire yelled at me and the runner, "ONE BASE ON AN OVERTHROW!" I was a bit stunned, but figured that was one of the day's modifications, so I said, "No problem. If I run a girl too far, just let me know and we'll put her back."

"IF YOU KNOW THE RULE, WHY WOULD YOU RUN HER?" Top of his lungs.

Wow.

Next inning, I had a legitimate question about a rule modification. I asked for time, was granted it, and walked calmly to the plate umpire to ask the question. Before I could get a sentence out, he yelled at me, "SHUT UP AND GET BACK IN THE DUGOUT."

Stunned, I went back towards the dugout and the umpire followed me. I turned towards him and he then said, "ONE MORE WORD OUT OF YOU AND YOU'RE GONE."

I was so stunned that I think I said, "But..." and just like that, he ejected me.

I walked out without saying a word and ended up on a picnic bench in left field. After I left, one of my parents said something and he turned and yelled through the fence, "SHUT UP OR YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE."

The tournament director was sympathetic and came and talked to me and said I could return to the tourney if my team won. We didn't. My kid was an absolute basket case, but she pitched the next inning really well.

So there it is. My first career ejection on the other side. I still don't know what hit me, other than the worst umpire I've ever seen.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Rich

I love these stories.

I have one of my own.

I'm coaching my daughter's softball team this summer. 8U. I'd give anything for girls that could catch, pitch, hit, etc. but we're having fun and we're doing OK. We're playing a lot of 10U teams and actually won a 10U tournament a few weeks ago.

We're at a tournament this past weekend and end up the 3 seed out of 12 teams. We had a game against the 6 seed on Sunday to advance to the semifinal.

One umpire with a HS player on the bases. Hey, he was actually dressed in a uniform, which isn't a usual thing for us. At this age level, there are so many modified rules I have a hard time keeping them straight, so it's no big surprise that they are different from game to game and umpire to umpire.

First inning of the game, there was a throw that got through at second base. My runner came to third and I sent her home. The plate umpire yelled at me and the runner, "ONE BASE ON AN OVERTHROW!" I was a bit stunned, but figured that was one of the day's modifications, so I said, "No problem. If I run a girl too far, just let me know and we'll put her back."

"IF YOU KNOW THE RULE, WHY WOULD YOU RUN HER?" Top of his lungs.

Wow.

Next inning, I had a legitimate question about a rule modification. I asked for time, was granted it, and walked calmly to the plate umpire to ask the question. Before I could get a sentence out, he yelled at me, "SHUT UP AND GET BACK IN THE DUGOUT."

Stunned, I went back towards the dugout and the umpire followed me. I turned towards him and he then said, "ONE MORE WORD OUT OF YOU AND YOU'RE GONE."

I was so stunned that I think I said, "But..." and just like that, he ejected me.

I walked out without saying a word and ended up on a picnic bench in left field. After I left, one of my parents said something and he turned and yelled through the fence, "SHUT UP OR YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE."

The tournament director was sympathetic and came and talked to me and said I could return to the tourney if my team won. We didn't. My kid was an absolute basket case, but she pitched the next inning really well.

So there it is. My first career ejection on the other side. I still don't know what hit me, other than the worst umpire I've ever seen.

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

[Rich]

I just took a job as a high school commissioner here. That means I hire all varsity officials for 21 schools for all sports, softball included.

On Saturday, I watched a father/son team deal with the biggest jerk coach I ever saw - and this was also at the 8U level. He finally got ejected and then pulled his team from the field and forfeited.

The tournament allowed the team to play the next day, but the coach wasn't there.

After our game, during which they were absolutely great, I hired those two officials. The base umpire is the only 8U guy I've seen all summer who actually pivoted in and RAN from position to position. I was impressed. They maintained their cool and control when the coach lost his marbles. They were friendly and approachable. No clue if they have the talent to work HS varsity games, but they have all the people skills I could ever want.

On Sunday after my ejection, the first thing I did was make sure that the umpire on the plate is NOT on the conference staff. Figured he wasn't, but wanted to make sure. If he was, he wouldn't be after that display.

Our tournament director (we run two tournaments) has removed umpires (part of the deal with the assignor) for various reasons. Not often. Once this season, when he allowed a 14U travel team to play with 4 outfielders and then wouldn't listen to the other coach's complaints about it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

If I observed it, I would send him home after the game with my thanks and cross him off my list. There are things that you can fix with umpires... most things in fact. But in all my years, I have never seen a guy like this guy change his tune, no matter how hard you try.

Verifiable report? If it came from a very small handful of people, I'd do as described above. If it came from anyone else - I'd have a word with him and decide from his demeanor when explaining his side of the story whether to keep him or not --- and if I kept him, I'd make sure I had the opportunity to watch him discreetly as often as possible.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If I observed it, I would send him home after the game with my thanks and cross him off my list. There are things that you can fix with umpires... most things in fact. But in all my years, I have never seen a guy like this guy change his tune, no matter how hard you try.

Verifiable report? If it came from a very small handful of people, I'd do as described above. If it came from anyone else - I'd have a word with him and decide from his demeanor when explaining his side of the story whether to keep him or not --- and if I kept him, I'd make sure I had the opportunity to watch him discreetly as often as possible.

Very well said...and my thoughts as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

That's right. They should be playing on the swings and with dolls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

I'm posting this as me, and not as an admin...

I'm sorry if this offends, Mike... but considering who you are this continual beratement of places that play 8U seriously is insulting. There IS good 8U ball out there. Perhaps you don't have it in your neck of the woods, but it exists, and in areas where it exists, it should be encouraged, not insulted.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

Yours was one of the answers I wanted.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

Depends on the immediate options.

1) If I have a replacement immediately available, he sits. At least until we have a conversation that leads me to believe he understands that is unacceptable.

2) If I have no immediately available replacement, he finishes the day. Still going to try to have that conversation between games; if not possible, before he leaves. If not then, before he ever gets the chance to work another day.

3) If he doesn't get it, he doesn't work again. Period.

4) If the TD (my customer) wants him gone regardless the result of the conversation, the customer is always right.

We are in a customer service job. I use the following comparison when umpires question how much power the TD or coaches have, or should have:

If you walk into the local Waffle House/Huddle House/IHOP/Applebees/etc, where you have been before, are greeted by the hostess, and you tell the hostess there is a specific server you have had before, and wish to sit at ANY OTHER area, what would you do, as a paying customer, if that hostess told you that you had to sit in that server's area, just because it was his/her turn, or their policy? Would you even pause to ask to speak to the manager first, or would you simply get up and go to another restaurant?

That's pretty much the relationship umpire associations or UIC's have with the TD's. There's always someone else they can use if your service isn't customer friendly. I'm NOT saying bend over, I'm saying that customer service is a necessary part of what we do; the customer has to be really out of line to not be the primary concern. The very nature of officiating is inherently adverserial; we have to sell our customer service despite that automatic bias. We certainly need to support our umpires in their calls, following the rules, etc; but how they deal with the customer makes or breaks their ability to be effective.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich

I love these stories.

I have one of my own.

I'm coaching my daughter's softball team this summer. 8U. I'd give anything for girls that could catch, pitch, hit, etc. but we're having fun and we're doing OK. We're playing a lot of 10U teams and actually won a 10U tournament a few weeks ago.

We're at a tournament this past weekend and end up the 3 seed out of 12 teams. We had a game against the 6 seed on Sunday to advance to the semifinal.

One umpire with a HS player on the bases. Hey, he was actually dressed in a uniform, which isn't a usual thing for us. At this age level, there are so many modified rules I have a hard time keeping them straight, so it's no big surprise that they are different from game to game and umpire to umpire.

First inning of the game, there was a throw that got through at second base. My runner came to third and I sent her home. The plate umpire yelled at me and the runner, "ONE BASE ON AN OVERTHROW!" I was a bit stunned, but figured that was one of the day's modifications, so I said, "No problem. If I run a girl too far, just let me know and we'll put her back."

"IF YOU KNOW THE RULE, WHY WOULD YOU RUN HER?" Top of his lungs.

Wow.

Next inning, I had a legitimate question about a rule modification. I asked for time, was granted it, and walked calmly to the plate umpire to ask the question. Before I could get a sentence out, he yelled at me, "SHUT UP AND GET BACK IN THE DUGOUT."

Stunned, I went back towards the dugout and the umpire followed me. I turned towards him and he then said, "ONE MORE WORD OUT OF YOU AND YOU'RE GONE."

I was so stunned that I think I said, "But..." and just like that, he ejected me.

I walked out without saying a word and ended up on a picnic bench in left field. After I left, one of my parents said something and he turned and yelled through the fence, "SHUT UP OR YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE."

The tournament director was sympathetic and came and talked to me and said I could return to the tourney if my team won. We didn't. My kid was an absolute basket case, but she pitched the next inning really well.

So there it is. My first career ejection on the other side. I still don't know what hit me, other than the worst umpire I've ever seen.

Wow, just wow. I've seen some uptight umpires in my day, but this takes the cake. You never yell at a coach when you are an umpire. If there is an issue, you talk to them in a calm and professional tone of voice. You can be authoritative if needed, but that is different from yelling. You also never ever follow a coach that is walking away from you.

The worst one though was the "if you say anything else, your out of here" type comment. The good news, he followed through with his threat. The bad news is you have now forced yourself into a corner as an umpire, because even if the coach says "ok" you need to toss them.

I have never seen an umpire get removed from an event in softball, but I've seen a couple instances in volleyball where officials have nearly been sent home (and in my opinion should have been). One was a varsity event where the officials was making all the calls, even though most of them were not his call to make. He was also very rude to the coaches when they attempted to question calls. Finally he was very rude to the event manager when his officiating was brought up. Thankfully they changed the schedule so he was not working the gold bracket matches in the afternoon. (Funny about that he said he wanted to start doing college matches, one of the parents of a team he screwed over on a call is a national level official (worked NCAA post-season play) and is the volleyball trainer for USAV. That ended any plans he had of advancing to college ball anytime soon. The second issue was an official who was yelling at a coach to the point of making her cry at a tourney. It was a season opening event and was freshman volleyball. She was a new coach (college graduate last year) and made a couple coaching mistakes. Instead of talking to her about the issues in a professional manner, and calling the issues by the book, he started berating her in front of the teams, fans and other coaches. Several of us who witnessed this wanted him removed, but the school AD refused. This is the only time I have ever been in favor of removing an official in an event.

The first official I mentioned from volleyball was removed from my assigning list for a sport I assign, swimming. I observed him at a meet that he showed up late to, and had no clue what he was doing. It was so bad I thought he was going to toss the visiting coach from the meet for questioning his starting procedures. (You can't start backstroke from the pool deck). This visiting coach is one of the most mild mannered coaches I have worked with, and never has he said anything to anyone that would warrant an ejection, but he was close at this SWIM MEET (I've heard of three ejections from swim meets in my life, and one was for a swimmer violating a rule repeatedly-jewelry).

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The plate umpire said he was so in shock, he went completely blank on what he saw and the only thing he could do was single safe. He said to this day he has no idea if she was safe or out at first, but since he could not see her out (or remember what he saw), he had to call her safe.

Shame on the PU.

I always pregame this (BU at C, pickoff throw to first) with my partner. At the higher levels (high school, college, good travel ball, etc.), this play can happen a couple of times a game. There should be no reason a PU goes blank on this play.

One colleague of mine whom I've worked with on many occasions up to and including Juco ball wants the PU to take this call as a deviation of the normal mechanic.