Dead Ball Advancement

[greymule]

As others have noted, ASA awards bases from the runner's position at the time of the release of the throw or, in the case of the OP, the time the fielder entered DBT, regardless of any obligation to retouch a base left too soon.

NCAA softball is different; it follows OBR. The award in the OP would be 3B, but once the runner returns to retag 1B, the award is changed to 2B. (There is long and complicated justification for this; ASA simplifies things.) Overthrows are treated similarly: if a runner who has left 1B too soon is between 2B and 3B when the fielder releases a throw that goes into DBT, the award is home, but if the runner returns to retouch 1B, the award is changed to 3B.

Don't know about Fed.

These codes differ on what they consider to be the "last base legally touched," just as they differ on what constitutes the runner "closest to home."

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The runner cannot have legally touched any base beyond first since he is required, by the rules, to tag first base after the catch to legally advance.

No runner can legally advance to any base if he in jeopardy of being called out for missing a previous base.

And what rule are you reading this one from?

[Dakota]

... sigh...

ASA Rule 8 Section 3. TOUCHING BASES IN LEGAL ORDER.
B. When a runner or batter-runner acquires the right to a base by touching it before being put out, the runner or batter-runner is entitled to hold the base until legally touching the next base in order or is forced to vacate it for a succeeding runner. When a runner passes a base, the runner is considered to have touched the base. This also applies to awarded bases.

I don't know why I bother.

[jimpiano]

I don't know why I bother.


I don't know why you bother, either.
If you cannot understand RS#27 then there is not much use of debating this further.

[greymule]

jimpiano, what award would you make on the following plays?:

1. Abel hits a ball off the RF fence. He misses 1B, touches 2B, and is on his way to 3B when F9 releases the throw toward 3B. Abel slides into 3B safely, and the ball gets away and goes into the dugout.

2. Abel on 1B with no outs. Baker hits a long drive to right center. Everyone in the park watches F8 make a spectacular diving catch at the fence, while you notice not only the catch but also the fact that Abel left 1B a half step too soon. Abel is around 2B and on his way to 3B when F4, who took F8's throw, releases his throw to 3B. Abel slides into 3B safely, and the ball gets away and goes into the dugout.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I don't know why I bother.


I don't know why you bother, either.
If you cannot understand RS#27 then there is not much use of debating this further.

ME understand RS27??? There's a laugh.

Using the rule I posted, define "legally touched".

Should I read it to you slowly?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by greymule

jimpiano, what award would you make on the following plays?:

1. Abel hits a ball off the RF fence. He misses 1B, touches 2B, and is on his way to 3B when F9 releases the throw toward 3B. Abel slides into 3B safely, and the ball gets away and goes into the dugout.

2. Abel on 1B with no outs. Baker hits a long drive to right center. Everyone in the park watches F8 make a spectacular diving catch at the fence, while you notice not only the catch but also the fact that Abel left 1B a half step too soon. Abel is around 2B and on his way to 3B when F4, who took F8's throw, releases his throw to 3B. Abel slides into 3B safely, and the ball gets away and goes into the dugout.

Do you get the meaning of the OP?
It is about a fielder going into dead ball territory while making a legal catch.

If you want to start a separate conversation about different circumstances you certainly are free to do so.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

ME understand RS27??? There's a laugh.

Using the rule I posted, define "legally touched".

Should I read it to you slowly?

Read as slow as you want, but I doubt it is going to do you any good.

The runner in the original post, by rule, is awarded second base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Read as slow as you want, but I doubt it is going to do you any good.

The runner in the original post, by rule, is awarded second base.

You are wrong and have been proven so. You are aware we are talking ASA softball, right?

One base from the last base touched when the ball enters DBT. As noted, that would be 2B since in ASA softball, rule 8.3.B specifically states that a base passed is a base touched. Therefore, in accordance with 8.5.J and RS 27, the runner in the OP would be awarded 3B.

BTW, there are also Casebook plays which support this ruling.




Edited for an easier read.

[greymule]

Do you get the meaning of the OP?

Yes. It's not very difficult. And the answer for ASA is 3B.

I posed the other plays because they both involve a principle you say you understand: the proper base award to a runner who has proceeded at least one base past either a missed a base or a base left too soon.

The two situations I posed are hardly difficult. How would you rule on them?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Read as slow as you want, but I doubt it is going to do you any good.

Finally, something we agree on.

[NCASAUmp]

jimpiano, you do realize that if you award 2B, you're tipping your hand to the defense that the runner didn't tag up at 1B, right?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

jimpiano, you do realize that if you award 2B, you're tipping your hand to the defense that the runner didn't tag up at 1B, right?

I am not tipping anyone of anything.

The last legally touched base was first, regardless of whether the runner retags.

Second base.

By rule.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I am not tipping anyone of anything.

The last legally touched base was first, regardless of whether the runner retags.

Second base.

By rule.

But if he had tagged up, you'd give him third? This inconsistency is where you're tipping your hand, and a savvy defensive coach will see this.

Mike and Mike (and just about everyone else) are correct in this matter. 3B, the whole way. If the runner doesn't retouch 2B, tag up on 1B, then advance to 3B (after touching 2B again), the defense may appeal.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You could not possibly be at the level you claim and mistake this one.

OK you caught me . . . it's no wonder people are afraid to post stuff, they get attacked personally. I guess I could give you my supervisor's number if you'd like to verify it. So I over analyzed a play . . . be thankful that you have never done that.