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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 09:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
OK Mike, I'm disputing that. She has to retouch 1st - right? Then she gets 3rd? For some reason that just seems wrong to me.
I agree with you that the rule abandons common sense.

If the fielder remained in play and as the runner was retreating to first base the ball is overthrown out of play, the runner gets third---2 bases.
In this case a one base award puts the runner at the same place.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
I agree with you that the rule abandons common sense.

If the fielder remained in play and as the runner was retreating to first base the ball is overthrown out of play, the runner gets third---2 bases.
In this case a one base award puts the runner at the same place.
The difference in the above-mentioned scenario and the OP is simple. One player made a great play, and the other play blew it.

So what are you proposing, jimpiano? Award one base for both rules or two bases?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
OK Mike, I'm disputing that. She has to retouch 1st - right? Then she gets 3rd? For some reason that just seems wrong to me.
You could not possibly be at the level you claim and mistake this one.

Read the rule. If you still think you have it right, read the rule again.

Quote for us where it says anything about retouching, or legally touched bases, or anything of the sort. Good luck there, as these words only appear in Jim's ASA Calvinball book.

The rule is simple - the LAST BASE TOUCHED... what they have to do otherwise is irrelevant.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
I agree with you that the rule abandons common sense.

If the fielder remained in play and as the runner was retreating to first base the ball is overthrown out of play, the runner gets third---2 bases.
In this case a one base award puts the runner at the same place.
First ... this is the same base awarded in the initial situation. 3rd base on both.

Second, your statement is not true at all if the runner is still past 2nd base when the throw toward first base is released. If he is ... he gets home. The direction he's running is irrelevant.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:29pm
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Basically, jimpiano, a fielder unintentionally carrying a live ball into dead ball territory (such as in the OP you described) is a small "oops." One base from base last touched.

A fielder throwing poorly is a big "oops." Two bases from base last touched when the ball was released. Keep in mind I'm saying this with a little "tongue in cheek."

I don't know ASA's rationale behind every rule, and I frankly have too many things going on with work right now to ponder it. So in the end, I call what they give me for a ruleset.
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I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.

Last edited by NCASAUmp; Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 01:31pm.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 01:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
Basically, jimpiano, a fielder unintentionally carrying a live ball into dead ball territory (such as in the OP you described) is a small "oops." One base from base last touched.

A fielder throwing poorly is a big "oops." Two bases from base last touched when the ball was released. Keep in mind I'm saying this with a little "tongue in cheek."

I don't know ASA's rationale behind every rule, and I frankly have too many things going on with work right now to ponder it. So in the end, I call what they give me for a ruleset.
And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 02:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.

and your UIC is WRONG.....
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 02:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.
Let me know who your UIC might be, and I'll be sure and put your UIC in touch with the appropriate Regional UIC, who will be happy to conduct a small a$$ chewing, er, I mean clinic, to correct this error.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 07:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbigdawg
and your UIC is WRONG.....
Yep, s/he sure is. Hopefully, this is a local UIC, not a state/metro/regional.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 10:09am
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Rule Supplement #27 reads in part:

(T)he base award is governed from the last base [B]legally[B] touched at the time the ball became dead.

The runner cannot have legally touched any base beyond first since he is required, by the rules, to tag first base after the catch to legally advance.

Even the award of second base is not legal unless the runner retouches first or the defending teams forgoes an appeal.

No runner can legally advance to any base if he in jeopardy of being called out for missing a previous base.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
You could not possibly be at the level you claim and mistake this one.

Read the rule. If you still think you have it right, read the rule again.

Quote for us where it says anything about retouching, or legally touched bases, or anything of the sort. Good luck there, as these words only appear in Jim's ASA Calvinball book.

The rule is simple - the LAST BASE TOUCHED... what they have to do otherwise is irrelevant.
Rule Supplement #27 reads in part:

(T)he base award is governed from the last base [B]legally[B] touched at the time the ball became dead.

Even the award of second base is not legal unless the runner retouches first or the defending teams forgoes an appeal.

The runner cannot have legally touched any base beyond first since he is required, by the rules, to tag first base after the catch to legally advance.

No runner can legally advance to any base if he in jeopardy of being called out for missing a previous base.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 10:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.
So ... your UIC intentionally ignores the rulebook? Or is he just unaware of the rule? Sad in either case, really.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 10:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
Rule Supplement #27 reads in part:

(T)he base award is governed from the last base [B]legally[B] touched at the time the ball became dead.

Even the award of second base is not legal unless the runner retouches first or the defending teams forgoes an appeal.

The runner cannot have legally touched any base beyond first since he is required, by the rules, to tag first base after the catch to legally advance.

No runner can legally advance to any base if he in jeopardy of being called out for missing a previous base.
Leaving first base early does not mean every future touch of a base is illegal. Let me ask you this ... a runner on first appears to be tagging, but leaves a step or so early, and is rounding 2nd heading for third when a relay throw is thrown into the third base dugout ... what base do you award?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 10:32am
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That RS is NOT making a distinction between a touched and passed-but-not-touched base. It is talking about a base to which the runner is not legally entitled. Before misinterpreting an RS, try reading the actual rule about a touched base.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 26, 2007, 10:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
That RS is NOT making a distinction between a touched and passed-but-not-touched base. It is talking about a base to which the runner is not legally entitled. Before misinterpreting an RS, try reading the actual rule about a touched base.
Rule Supplement # 27 and Rule 8-6-j talk about the awarding of bases when a player carries the ball, intenionally or not, into real or imaginary dead ball territory.

The decision to award a base or bases, depending upon intent, is based on pretty clear language:....(T)he base award is based on the last base legally touched at the time the ball became dead.

The original post deals only with this rule and rule supplement #27 makes it clear that the last base touched means the last legal base touched.
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