Video Request - Syracuse vs Duke (Video)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Yeah, if they request time, don't run at me, and keep it civil.

I just don't like the idea of someone yelling at me, be it on the diamond, hardcourt, or Costco, and not doing something about it.

I can't remember the last time a college baseball coach requested time before coming out and arguing a call I've made.

I could only imagine the reaction of my coordinator if I told him I ejected a coach because he didn't call time before he came out to argue a call. Or that he yelled. Goes with the territory.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Toren

So I have no problem with either call. Ideally I would have liked the Lead to have completed his rotation instead of moving during the action.

All nice but not really always possible. Players move when they chose to and we have to make the call when it occurs.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Rich

Do you change how you make a call based on a single call 10 minutes earlier? Personally, I think this would be a horrible way to officiate. I take every game one play at a time and I can't imagine guys at the top of the profession doing anything different.

2 wrongs wouldn't make a right.

(3 rights, however, make a left.)

At the beginning of my season, my conference supervisor and a regional observer watched my game. After the game, they came into the locker room and told the crew:

"To succeed at the higher levels of college basketball, you have to understand the feel and dynamics of the game. Calls and non-calls at one end of the floor deserve the similar calls and non-calls at the other end of the floor when the plays are similar."

When the boss and an observer tell you this, then you do as they say.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

At the beginning of my season, my conference supervisor and a regional observer watched my game. After the game, they came into the locker room and told the crew:

"To succeed at the higher levels of college basketball, you have to understand the feel and dynamics of the game. Calls and non-calls at one end of the floor deserve the similar calls and non-calls at the other end of the floor when the plays are similar."

When the boss and an observer tell you this, then you do as they say.

What is implied in that statement is the word "correct" calls and "correct" non-calls with "correct" being subjective in some cases. If you totally kick one at one end, that philosophy is not saying you should kick it at the other.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

End of game B/C - Block, defender had no established LGP prior to the upward motion of the shooter. The L makes this call in rotation, the T was backing out.

Originally Posted by Adam

I see LGP before he even holds the ball, let alone starting his upward motion. It's a bit grainy for me, though, to know for sure, so I'll defer to the guy standing 5 feet away.

Agree with Adam here. The defender obtained initial LGP before the dribble even ended....well before upward motion. That is what the new rule/POE requires. It makes no restriction on moving to maintain an already established LGP. If the defender continues to move AND remain in the opponents path the entire time, then they are legal. They've already met the requirement for upward motion.

If the opponent jumps in a direction not toward the defender, the defender is no longer in the path and it is too late to obtain a new position in the path.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Calls and non-calls at one end of the floor deserve the similar calls and non-calls at the other end of the floor when the plays are similar."

This logic is flawed, no matter who said it. Two plays can be very similar and still be on opposite sides of a line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

Different sports, Kyle. Different expectations. Doesn't make basketball wrong and baseball right, either. Boeheim JUST BEING ON THE FLOOR arguing is a pretty automatic technical foul. Baseball allows managers to come onto the field and argue without ejecting quite a few of them.

I know more about quantum physics than I do about baseball rules, but: No technical fouls in baseball, just ejections, no other options.

[grunewar]

This ESPN article also has some great isolation video of Boeheim's reaction from several different angles.....

Referees made right call at end of Syracuse Orange-Duke Blue Devils game, official says - ESPN

From the article: "The timing of this particular call, with the NCAA tournament right around the corner, will only add to the heightened scrutiny officials are facing."

(Someone can isolate the video - I gotta learn how to do that!)

[sj]

Originally Posted by grunewar

This ESPN article also has some great isolation video of Boeheim's reaction from several different angles.....

Referees made right call at end of Syracuse Orange-Duke Blue Devils game, official says - ESPN

From the article: "The timing of this particular call, with the NCAA tournament right around the corner, will only add to the heightened scrutiny officials are facing."

(Someone can isolate the video - I gotta learn how to do that!)

I'm not a college official so need to understand how this is different from the year before.

According to the article they added, "A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion with the ball to attempt a field goal or pass. If the defensive player is not in legal guarding position by this time, it is a blocking foul."

Based on my limited understanding of what the college guys have been told about it how is this different than what they might have called the year before. Thanks.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by sj

I'm not a college official so need to understand how this is different from the year before.

According to the article they added, "A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion with the ball to attempt a field goal or pass. If the defensive player is not in legal guarding position by this time, it is a blocking foul."

Based on my limited understanding of what the college guys have been told about it how is this different than what they might have called the year before. Thanks.

From the 2011-12 Rulebook:

Section 35. Guarding

Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the ball:

d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained
legal guarding position before the opponent left the playing court.
(Exception: Rule 4-35.7)

From the 2014-15 Rulebook:

Section 17. Guarding

Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the ball:

d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained
legal guarding position before the opponent begins his upward motion
with his hands/arms to shoot or pass. (Exception: Rule 4-17.7)

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This logic is flawed, no matter who said it. Two plays can be very similar and still be on opposite sides of a line.

When someone has a position to integrate a philosophy throughout the officiating landscape to bring continuity for all regions, I believe it is upon us to work on implementing this way of thinking.

If we as officials are closed minded to a different way of thinking, there can never be a continuity in officiating across the country; which perpetuates the stereotype that the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12, SEC officiate differently. This is something that John Adams is trying his best to eliminate.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sj

I'm not a college official so need to understand how this is different from the year before.

According to the article they added, "A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion with the ball to attempt a field goal or pass. If the defensive player is not in legal guarding position by this time, it is a blocking foul."

Based on my limited understanding of what the college guys have been told about it how is this different than what they might have called the year before. Thanks.

In prior years the defender had until the offensive player became airborne (both feet having left the floor) to obtain a legal guarding position. The new rule shifts that point to when the offensive player begins his upward movement with his hands and arms. So in NCAA men's games defenders need to get there earlier this year.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So in NCAA men's games defenders need to get there establish legal guarding position earlier this year.

ftfy

[stick]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Yeah, if they request time, don't run at me, and keep it civil.

I just don't like the idea of someone yelling at me, be it on the diamond, hardcourt, or Costco, and not doing something about it.

Is this a rule in a league, local area, association or state you ump at? Or is this how you apply it individually? I understand about keeping it civil but I'm not aware of any protocall where a manager must request time before entering the field to contest a call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

When someone has a position to integrate a philosophy throughout the officiating landscape to bring continuity for all regions, I believe it is upon us to work on implementing this way of thinking.

If we as officials are closed minded to a different way of thinking, there can never be a continuity in officiating across the country; which perpetuates the stereotype that the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12, SEC officiate differently. This is something that John Adams is trying his best to eliminate.

To properly implement the philosophy requires understanding the philosophy in the first place. It is not about being closed minded. It is simply about understanding what that philosophy really means. It has nothing to do with deliberately calling a foul wrong because one a few minutes before was called incorrectly.

And even if it isn't about one being wrong vs. right, there has to be a line somewhere and at some point, one play will have gone just a little bit too far.