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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:00am
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Unhappy more patient?

I had my 2nd Varsity game last night. First quarter, half way through. My partners seem to not call obvious fouls right in front of them. This continues through til half time. Fans, coaches and players are getting frustrated with the lack control. We did not reach one and one in a girls game.

The fouls were 6 and 5 and I called about 3/4 of them. Halftime, were talking about the first half. My Ps are calm and collect. Saying good half. So I ask if they having anything for me, that they see I need to work on. (they're both 10 years and more, I'm only 3 years) My P says yeah. Try to be more patient with you whistle! Let them play through some of your fouls. Now I might be used to JV ball, but I cant believe that most V officials are like this.

It really affected my game in the second half. It was stuck in my head what he said. I think I blew my whistle about 3 times and 1 was a travel. I'm all for "get in, get done and get out!" BUT! The game was a complete disaster. People screaming all over the place FOUL this! FOUL that! And I got my whistle stuck in my throat! So as a First year Varsity ref, What the hell do you do in this sitch! If I start blowing my whistle all over the place, My Ps would be pissed and start talking and I would never get anymore V games. I Guess "GET IN, GET DONE AND GET OUT' ( I just read my Quote below as I was editing this! How Ironic!!!!!!!!)
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Last edited by chrs_schuster; Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:05am.
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:21am
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Smile Without seeing it is hard to say...

I can say without a doubt you may be right or you may ber wrong. .. haha.. What I mean is I evaluate a lot of games and sometimes the newer ref is calling way too much, but there are also times when the vets want to get in and get out! My best suggestion would be to find a mentor in your association you can trust and confer with them on these two officials. Find someone who has your best interest and will tell it to you straight. This way you will know the scoop on these two refs. Be prepared you may also find you are blowing too many whistles, but at least you will know.

I can say without a doubt the fans yelling and screaming means nothing to me, they are ussually clueless!
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:24am
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:37am
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Most of the time I have found that the "surprise" calls generate most of the difficult moments in our officiating lives. And newer officials have a tendency to make "surprise" calls more often than seasoned veteran officials.

The trick to effective officiating isn't knowing when to call a foul or not, which way to go on out of bounds calls, etc. (These come with time and experience.)

It's about communication and game management. Being in the right place at the right time looking at the right things with the right knowlege and understanding....these lead to right decisions.

The old adage "similar plays should have similar outcomes" is a good rule of thumb for newer officials at any level. This type of consistency enables players and coaches to adjust to a level of officiating.

If as a newer official you find yourself "blowing" the whistle a lot more than the veteran officials with whom you are teamed, or you are "blowing" the whistle for things that the veteran officials are not blowing, these realizations should at least give you "pause" to consider whether or not there is officiating team consistency. "Similar plays should have similar outcomes."

Reading between the lines in the original post, (and I could be very wrong about this) where you talk about the numerous calls your partners are missing and how many you are getting, I would have an initial suspicion that you might be ball watching a pretty good bit. Unless the ball is in the paint or in a transition area between primary areas, I seldom know whether or not my partner "missed a call" or "got it right" because I'm not looking at what he or she is looking at. I trust them to take care of their calls, just as I hope they trust me to take care of my calls.

One other thing I came across a long time ago (and this relates to the "patient whistle" advice) is the advice to not be in as much of a hurry to blow the whistle. One camp clinician put it like this, a slow or patient whistle on just about anything but travelling and it will elevate the quality of our calls. He illustrated it like this: See the play and take a picture of it, develop it in your mind, then decide if you like it or don't like it. If you don't like, THEN blow the whistle. All of this is "thin sliced" within milliseconds, but it does suggest that their is a decision process instead of just a reaction to contact. This has helped me.

While there are always exceptions, a general rule is that the most active whistle in the game ought not be the newbie's.

Last edited by Rusty Gilbert; Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:44am.
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrs_schuster
Fans, coaches and players are getting frustrated with the lack control. .

People screaming all over the place FOUL this! FOUL that!
First, forget about what those people "scream" about your calls. Disregard it, forget about it, ignore it, don't even hear it. "Foul this, foul that" should have absolutely no influence on how you call a particular game. They are ignorant about how officials call a game and about what constitutes a foul.

Second, if you can remember, what happened to the players that got fouled in the first half after you called the foul? Did the ball get away from the dribbler? Was the post player still able to catch the entry pass? After a slight bump, was player able to reach the loose ball?

What I'm getting at is that sometimes the contact is obvious, but it doesn't actually affect the play. In those situations, it helps to be "more patient" with your whistle, as your partners said. In the examples I mentioned above, if a dribbler's arm is obviously contacted by a defender, but the dribbler maintains control of the ball and maintains the path she was on, then I have no foul. If the post player receives a pass on the block and the defender comes "over the top" of her to try to make the steal, but the post player makes the catch and is still able to turn to the basket, then I have no foul. If the ball is loose on the floor and one player has a clear path to the ball, and an opponent bumps that player because she is also trying to get the ball, I have no foul if the first player continues her path and recovers the ball.

Without making judgments about you personally or your partners, I will say that where I officiate, officials who are on the "girls' board" call the game with less consideration of advantage/disadvantage. This seems to actually be expected by people watching the girls' games. But when officials from the "boys' board" work those girls games, there are noticably fewer whistles, because we try to see the whole play before making a call.
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 11:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Gilbert
One camp clinician put it like this, a slow or patient whistle on just about anything but travelling and it will elevate the quality of our calls.
Isn't this where the advocates for not not calling traveling when there's no defensive pressure usually break in with a tsk-tsk?

Slow whistle on fouls. Call most violations(except 3 seconds & 10 seconds for a FT shooter) when they occur. Don't over-think the game.
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Isn't this where the advocates for not not calling traveling when there's no defensive pressure usually break in with a tsk-tsk?

Slow whistle on fouls. Call most violations(except 3 seconds & 10 seconds for a FT shooter) when they occur. Don't over-think the game.

Good points JR. When there's no defensive pressure, I'm usually real focused on pivot foot, etc....looking past to the defensive set up, anticipating offensive movement, etc.

And you are right not overthinking the game. Most violations need attention immediately (reaction?), while most fouls need some thought (process the decision and then respond).

In a D3 blowout yesterday afternoon, after the team that's 30+ ahead scored a basket midway through 2nd half and the team that's behind grabbed the ball for the throw in (no pressure, etc), the "thrower" went to toss the ball to the "catcher" but the catcher just kind of grabbed it before the "throw" happened. I "neglected to see the violation" but mentioned to the thrower a couple of steps onto the court that she needed to make sure and "throw the ball" and not just hand it in. She grinned broadly and said, "my bad. Thanks."
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 11:34am
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I understand what you all are saying and thanks for the advice. First the fans do not bother me or influence my calls in any way. I was just stating how the fans were reacting to our calls or not calls. Second, Rusty gilbert maybe right in that I'm looking at the ball to much and not my primary. But as T , or even C, everybody is crowded at the basket in girls game where am I supposed to look? I know its an experience thing and I was just looking for a few answers to help it along
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 12:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrs_schuster
I understand what you all are saying and thanks for the advice. First the fans do not bother me or influence my calls in any way. I was just stating how the fans were reacting to our calls or not calls. Second, Rusty gilbert maybe right in that I'm looking at the ball to much and not my primary. But as T , or even C, everybody is crowded at the basket in girls game where am I supposed to look? I know its an experience thing and I was just looking for a few answers to help it along
You are saying that they aren't calling fouls -- could you put those calls in terms of advantage/disadvantage and tell me that they were passing on calls that definitely put the other team at a disadvantage?

One thing I notice in girls games is that everyone in the crowd and even many of the coaches think every little bump and every little bit of contact is a foul. It's not and I don't care how much they b!tch -- I'm calling the game the right way as ANYONE can call every little bit of contact.

Oh, we had a girls game the other night where we didn't hit the bonus in EITHER half. Why is that a big deal?

Also, a patient whistle is always good when it comes to fouls. You need a little extra time in many cases to judge advantage/disadvantage.
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 12:52pm
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I certainly don't mind partners calling fouls - HOWEVER - I do get frustrated when they call "game interupters". Hold the whistle and make sure that defensive advantage has been gained. Of course protect the shooter but your partners were correct in that there is some contact that needs to be played through. The bottom line is that all contact is not a foul and going a step father all illegal contact it NOT a foul. Remember that a slow whistle is not a bad thing.
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 01:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrs_schuster
My partners seem to not call obvious fouls right in front of them.
Why are you watching plays that are right in front of your partners? Shouldn't you be watching your own area?
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 02:40pm
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HOWEVER - I do get frustrated when they call "game interupters".
Could you explain that a little more, please. I keep reading about "game interrupters" and how they're supposed to be such a bad thing, but I'm not really sure what a "game interrupter" really is. Doesn't every single whistle that any official blows, whether it was for a violation or a foul, interrupt the game? Is the concept that you should call fewer violations and fouls so as to not interrupt the game as much, with the goal of eventually reaching a point where you don't call anything and you never interupt the game?
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 03:02pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Could you explain that a little more, please. I keep reading about "game interrupters" and how they're supposed to be such a bad thing, but I'm not really sure what a "game interrupter" really is. Doesn't every single whistle that any official blows, whether it was for a violation or a foul, interrupt the game? Is the concept that you should call fewer violations and fouls so as to not interrupt the game as much, with the goal of eventually reaching a point where you don't call anything and you never interupt the game?
No, the officials whistle does not ever interupt the game, or the flow of the game. The foul or violation does that. I just make sure that if I'm blowing my whistle, the game has really already been interupted. Does that make sense? Are you going to call every contact a foul? No. Where do you draw the line when B1 is tracking A1 with his left hand? When the flow of the play has been interrupted, right?
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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 04:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrs_schuster
I had my 2nd Varsity game last night. First quarter, half way through. My partners seem to not call obvious fouls right in front of them. This continues through til half time. Fans, coaches and players are getting frustrated with the lack control. We did not reach one and one in a girls game.

The fouls were 6 and 5 and I called about 3/4 of them. Halftime, were talking about the first half. My Ps are calm and collect. Saying good half. So I ask if they having anything for me, that they see I need to work on. (they're both 10 years and more, I'm only 3 years) My P says yeah. Try to be more patient with you whistle! Let them play through some of your fouls. Now I might be used to JV ball, but I cant believe that most V officials are like this.

It really affected my game in the second half. It was stuck in my head what he said. I think I blew my whistle about 3 times and 1 was a travel. I'm all for "get in, get done and get out!" BUT! The game was a complete disaster. People screaming all over the place FOUL this! FOUL that! And I got my whistle stuck in my throat! So as a First year Varsity ref, What the hell do you do in this sitch! If I start blowing my whistle all over the place, My Ps would be pissed and start talking and I would never get anymore V games. I Guess "GET IN, GET DONE AND GET OUT' ( I just read my Quote below as I was editing this! How Ironic!!!!!!!!)
Our jobs are to call the obvious. Our jobs are not to call every minor infraction where it is hard to tell what was just called. If you get the big calls, then when you call the minor violation it is easier to believe those calls.

Now you say this is your second varsity game. I am going to guess that you like me and just about every other veteran here at one time was quick to call things and have now slowed down considerably since our first or second varsity game. I know I am much slower and do not call things that I would have called 5 years ago let alone what I would have called almost 10 years ago. I was not there so none of us know what you called or what your partner's called. I will just say that this is a common experience of younger officials breaking into varsity ball. If you want to stay there very much longer, I bet these guys know what it takes and it might be good advice to listen to them on some level.

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Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 05:22pm
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Originally Posted by mplagrow
1) No, the officials whistle does not ever interupt the game, or the flow of the game. The foul or violation does that. I just make sure that if I'm blowing my whistle, the game has really already been interupted. Does that make sense?

2) Are you going to call every contact a foul?

3) Where do you draw the line when B1 is tracking A1 with his left hand? When the flow of the play has been interrupted, right?
1) No.

2) No, just the actual fouls. Incidental contact isn't a foul.

3) Yup, iow when someone gains an advantage.

None of this still doesn't change the fact that any time you blow your whistle, you're still interrupting the game. Why then are some whistles deemed to be "game interrupters" then and others aren't? As an official, we're supposed yto call fouls and violations, aren't we? Or are we supposed to only call some fouls and violations? And if so, what are the violations and fouls that we're supposed to call?

Please enlighten me, someone.
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