The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 05:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Bait Alert! Bait Alert! JR's fishing.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 06:50pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Bait Alert! Bait Alert! JR's fishing.
No, actually I'm not this time, Nevada. Everybody seems to be using this new catchphrase- "game interrupter"- but I still haven't seen a logical explanation of whatintheheck a "game interrupter" actually is that makes any kind of sense to me.

Every time you blow your whistle, you're interrupting the game. So....why are some whistles supposedly good and other whistles bad? And where can I read the list which tells me which ones are supposed to be "good" and which ones are supposed to be "bad"? Aren't violations violations? And if they aren't, why would anybody call anything? I know that you might use a l'il judgment on certain violations as to whether you're going to call them or not--i.e. 3 seconds, 10 seconds for the FT shooter, an elbow or punched ball with nobody near, etc. Are those the game interrupters that are being talked about, and does that mean that you should never call them? And....aren't fouls fouls too? And, again, if they aren't, then why would anybody call anything? I always thought that that you just decided whether you had a foul or incidental contact, and tried to be consistent in your judgment. Apparently that's completely wrong. Do you now have to decide what fouls should be called too? And when they should be called?

Again, could someone please enlighten me?
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 07:06pm
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Why are you watching plays that are right in front of your partners? Shouldn't you be watching your own area?
I was thinking the same thing.

The only problem with having a patient whistle is ball-watching is very popular. This leads to people calling out of their area. One thing I always talk about in the pregame is "ordinary, average, everyday, happens all the time, several times a game" drives to the hoop on the C's side of the basket. IMHO, those plays are not good double whistles and it happens too much. If an official is exercising a patient whistle, the lead could end up blowing the whistle on a play the C was going to pass on.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 07:11pm
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Again, could someone please enlighten me?
I think he term is meant to refer to whistles that do not need to be blown.

A totally random analogy

Let's say you are cutting the grass and your wife stops you to tell you she is going to the store to get you some prune juice. That is OK. She goes (to the store), comes back and stops you again to tell you she is going into the bathroom because she drank the last of your prune juice earlier. Wouldn't you think she could have went to the bathroom and let you continue cutting the grass.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 09:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 800
Send a message via AIM to Mountaineer Send a message via Yahoo to Mountaineer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Could you explain that a little more, please. I keep reading about "game interrupters" and how they're supposed to be such a bad thing, but I'm not really sure what a "game interrupter" really is. Doesn't every single whistle that any official blows, whether it was for a violation or a foul, interrupt the game? Is the concept that you should call fewer violations and fouls so as to not interrupt the game as much, with the goal of eventually reaching a point where you don't call anything and you never interupt the game?
No, every foul or whistle that is called is not a "game interrupter". A game can still flow in spite of violations and fouls. Of course there can be no "game interrupters" and still be no flow. I think that everyone would agree that a game that has a good flow to it is more enjoyable and easier to officiate. To give you a definition of a game interrupter would be impossible - it really depends on the game and the call.

By rule, you could probably have and and-1 on almost every play inside. Do you call them all? Gosh, I hope not. Most of those would probably fall into the category of a game interrupter. Illegal contact that doesn't effect speed, rhythm and balance could be considered a game interrupter. Again, you'll notice all of these COULD be game interrupters. There is not a standard definition - game situation, type of foul, position on the floor, score and the flow of the game all go into what can make a foul a game interrupter.

tomegun, I think you are basically correct - more succinct than I was. Hope that makes the situation even more cloudy! LOL
__________________
Larry Ledbetter
NFHS, NCAA, NAIA

The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 09:28pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
She goes (to the store), comes back and stops you again to tell you she is going into the bathroom because she drank the last of your prune juice earlier.

Q. What are you after you drink 10 bottles of french wine?

A. European (sound it out)
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 09:31pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Talking You are arguing over game flow?

Could some of this conversation be about more minutiae than any in recent history?

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 09:38pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Could some of this conversation be about more minutiae than any in recent history?

Peace
If arguing about game flow and what constitutes an interruptor is minutiae, I'd hate to see what is really important.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 09:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 800
Send a message via AIM to Mountaineer Send a message via Yahoo to Mountaineer
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Could some of this conversation be about more minutiae than any in recent history?

Peace
OMG, you think discussing game flow is minutiae? I actually think that flow is one of the more important things a young official can learn! We have a thread talking about holding a whistle in your hand rather than using a lanyard and you call THIS minutiae? What do you call that thread then?

I also think tomegun's thoughts about his wife interrupting him from cutting the grass and stopping on the way to the crapper very important!
__________________
Larry Ledbetter
NFHS, NCAA, NAIA

The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 09:45pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
OMG, you think discussing game flow is minutiae? I actually think that flow is one of the more important things a young official can learn! We have a thread talking about holding a whistle in your hand rather than using a lanyard and you call THIS minutiae? What do you call that thread then?
Will you relax please. Lighten up Francis.

BTW, if you feel it is the most important thing, then you must be a rookie official. Of course it is nice to get some flow, but that does not mean it is my main concern. My concern is to be as consistent from start to finish. If you have to call 50 fouls, then you have to call 50 fouls. Flow is one of the last things on my mind because it largely has nothing to do with the officials. I cannot tell the players to throw the ball out of bounds, commit obvious violations or knock people on their behind every time a team has the ball.

Maybe flow is important to you, but it really is not that important to me.

BTW, I was joking with you. This is why "" was apart of the post.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 800
Send a message via AIM to Mountaineer Send a message via Yahoo to Mountaineer
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Will you relax please. Lighten up Francis.

BTW, if you feel it is the most important thing, then you must be a rookie official. Of course it is nice to get some flow, but that does not mean it is my main concern. My concern is to be as consistent from start to finish. If you have to call 50 fouls, then you have to call 50 fouls. Flow is one of the last things on my mind because it largely has nothing to do with the officials. I cannot tell the players to throw the ball out of bounds, commit obvious violations or knock people on their behind every time a team has the ball.

Maybe flow is important to you, but it really is not that important to me.

BTW, I was joking with you. This is why "" was apart of the post.

Peace
I'm light - just that I've thought that about other threads and kept my mouth closed. I didn't say THE most important thing. One of the more important things. I say that because younger officials don't allow a game to flow because they feel the need to call every violation, every foul, every every thing they see. So, I do think it's important to learn what flow is in a game. A buddy of mine had a 3rd year in a varsity game the other night and the kid had a great 1st half - but managed to call 14 fouls in the 3rd qtr! Not that I think my buddy was right - but he did give the kid a barage of Fbombs during intermission and then in the car after the game. (Again, I'm not agreeing with his actions - just giving the facts.) That kid needed a lesson on game flow.

I'm not upset dude - I love this stuff. Not a rookie btw. FYI, it's Larry not Francis.
__________________
Larry Ledbetter
NFHS, NCAA, NAIA

The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 10:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Call most violations(except 3 seconds & 10 seconds for a FT shooter) when they occur. Don't over-think the game.
Why do you feel that 10 second violations by a FT shooter shouldn't be called?
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 11:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 800
Send a message via AIM to Mountaineer Send a message via Yahoo to Mountaineer
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Why do you feel that 10 second violations by a FT shooter shouldn't be called?
I'm not saying they should never be called - Honestly? I've never even seen that called let alone called it myself. I do remember getting to 10 once and going back to 6 and the kid got the shot off before 10. I said something to the coach as I went by the next time and it wasn't a problem after that. I tend to give slow counts on 3-sec., 5-sec. inbounds and held ball, and 10 sec back court counts. I'm strict on the 5 and 10 sec. calls but I still count just a hair slow. On 3-sec. I tend to try to talk them out of the lane. If they won't listen, I'll bust 'em. Again, the FT violation is the one I've never seen called or called myself. Have you?
__________________
Larry Ledbetter
NFHS, NCAA, NAIA

The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 03:22am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
1)To give you a definition of a game interrupter would be impossible - it really depends on the game and the call.

2) Illegal contact that doesn't effect speed, rhythm and balance could be considered a game interrupter.
1) Oh.....OK.

2) Hmmmmm. I was always taught that contact that doesn't effect speed, rhythm and balance was supposed to be deemed as being incidental contact and not illegal contact.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 03:55am.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 03:27am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Of course it is nice to get some flow, but that does not mean it is my main concern. My concern is to be as consistent from start to finish. If you have to call 50 fouls, then you have to call 50 fouls. Flow is one of the last things on my mind because it largely has nothing to do with the officials. I cannot tell the players to throw the ball out of bounds, commit obvious violations or knock people on their behind every time a team has the ball.
Ah, wise words......

You must be a USC fan.

I agree completely. The players dictate the "flow". They also commit the "game interrupters". All the officials do is call 'em, hopefully equally and consistently.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 07:42am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Patient Whistle jforgues Basketball 42 Fri Jul 22, 2005 01:46pm
Patient Whistle FrankHtown Basketball 22 Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:16pm
Patient Whistle FrankHtown Basketball 8 Tue Jul 27, 2004 03:44pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1