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Your right! your partners aren't getting any of your check. What if your missed calls, if any, weren't picked up by your partners and the game your on goes south or better yet the film gets to your college supervisor or the film gets passed around the high school coach's. You may not care about what happen's to you but what about what happens to your partners? Because you one of those officials who says, "stay out of my area!" What is most important to you? You, your check, yoour partners, or the game? The best officials or I should say the best R's are the officials who make the crew better without sacrificing their partners. |
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Once again, everything being argued is what gets pre gamed as shared calls...which hardly fits the subject of this thread...AT&T calls way outside your primary.
In Arizona we still do 2 whistle, so this is an even worse game killer than it would be with 3 officials. I can tell you from experience, that very, VERY rarely has a partner made a call with me a few feet away where: 1. I didn't see it and it needed to be gotten. 2. That they got it right. There are times where they saw part of the play and I passed on something that didn't need to be called and they either got that or called a violation on the result of my pass. Other times they just flat out missed it, and were 100% wrong. This has nothing to do with ego, it's all about getting it right. If you are ball watching from 30 feet away, you aren't getting a great look and the odds are you'll miss it. If you split focus and pick something up while watching your area, just how good a look did you get? Did you see the play start to finish? Again, chances are you'll get it wrong. Seeing an elbow to the face is hard to get wrong. Seeing a shot to the beans is hard to get wrong. Seeing two handed pushes in the back is hard to get wrong. Seeing a travel, LGP, movement toward an opponent, a chicken wing, clear out from 30 feet away is EASY to get wrong. |
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Great points. I just hope that we don't have or keep the mentality that if it's not in my primary then I can't call it. Lets face it none of us is perfect!!! There are very good reasons to get a call that isn't in your primary. None of which I'm talking about are violations. I'm directlt talking about game saving / crew saving calls.
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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These are the situations I'm referring to. Sometimes Center has the best look @ plays through the paint. Quote:
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Last edited by Gimlet25id; Wed Nov 08, 2006 at 11:50pm. |
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I let this one go for a while, and it was nice to see someone agrees with me on some of the points.
Why do you guys that believe this, think that mechanics is what makes the officials able to do their jobs? I understand not ball watching - I watch off the ball quite a bit, looking for those competitive matchups, etc. But there are a lot of times when 1) you don't have anything to watch in your area (if it's not that competitive of a game, or the players are playing nice), and 2) you really DO need to know what is going on globally (as the phrase was used earlier in the thread). So therefore, you are going to extend your view outside your primary area. It does say "primary", not "ONLY", or "RESTRICTED". Primary means first - first area of responsibility, not ONLY area of responsibility. The rules... as they are written, and govern the game... do NOT say anything about one official having authority extending over part of the court and only part of the court. They do not restrict calls to one specific area for one official. They do define slight differences in responsibility for R's and U's, but very slight ones. As an official, I (and my partner) have the right to call anything anywhere on the court. (Consider - the coaches feel they have the right to complain about anything anywhere on the court... heh - but we have the right by rule to call anything anywhere on the court) I do not understand how a set of arbitrary mechanics can restrict what, by rule, we are allowed to do. I have used the word "arbitrary" multiple times in reference to these mechanics. Someone somewhere decided this is what they wanted us to do. The rules are decided and voted on by a committee. What about mechanics? Same people? Or just some people who want the game called a certain way. And I also have a problem with some responses... "Call whatever you want - just don't work with me" - "Go ahead and do whatever you want, see what happens". These kinds of responses don't get to the heart of the matter - they are a knee-jerk response by people who have run out of responses beyond "That's just the way it is". Mechanics are supposed to help us officiate the game. They are not supposed to put us in a position where one official is looked down upon, berated, complained about, or denegrated in any way for calling something they have every right by rule to call, but their partner just doesn't want them calling. In most cases, I have found, the newer officials are more of my opinion "Get the call right - help me out when you feel I need it", and the older officals are the ones whose egos (to use a term brought up a few messages ago) have grown to the point that it becomes "My call, right or wrong - don't you DARE reach into my area". The comment about the check gets me too... since you don't get paid by call, or by size or area of responsibility, you get paid, as a pair, to officiate the game. Sometimes one official calls more/less than the other - as long as they are consistent within the game, and it is a fair contest, there is nothing for anyone to complain about. Otherwise, in some games, I should get a larger check than my partner, because they don't do anything, and in some, I should get the smaller check, because my partner runs the show completely. This is ludicurous - saying "I get paid my fee, so let me do my area" - by rule, both officials are responsible for the GAME - not for specific areas of the court (except for the slight R and U differences mentioned above). I can't expect to change the system. I can't even expect to get some of the people who believe mechanics are the be-all and end-all of basketball to rethink that absolute belief that the mechanics they have been taught are always right. All I expect to do is bring to light that some people disagree with the belief that your primary area is to be your only area, and that no basketball official could possibly be wrong in their call in their primary area. "My call, right or wrong" is a bad attitude to have ANYWHERE on the court. I would hope people would at least agree that getting the calls right SHOULD be the highest goal of any official. Sticking to primary coverage and current mechanics may help - but also may in some cases hinder - this goal.
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David A. Rinke II |
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Don't get me wrong. I believe in the mechanics. They are essential in officiating the game. However they are just a guideline to be in the right area looking at the right things to put you in the best possible position to make the correct call. They don't mean that you can never, never come out of your primary to make a call. I do agree with some of what was said earliar that most calls made out of primary areas are more wrong then right. Especially with newer officials. I don't agree with the philosphy that you stay in your area and I will stay in mine. That is the type of personality or EGO if you will, that destroy's what the mechanics manual is trying to accomplish. Quote:
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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We need to stop talking in generalities, let us get to the bottom line.
I have a few questions for you guys to clarify your position. 1. You are the Lead Official and your partner is watching the ball handler. The ball handler "carries" the ball about near the division line. Do you call this as the Lead official? 2. You are the trail official and the ball goes out right in front of the Lead official, do you blow the whistle and signal as the trail official? 3. There is a throw-in and your partner is administering the throw-in. The thrower moves a little to the side and in your opinion the player violated the designated spot; do you call the violation that your partner missed? Are these game saving calls? Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Getting paid for something does not make it a job. I am a volunteer fireman, and have been one for 16+ years. No money for anything there, which makes it less than a job because no money changes hands? I don't think so. Also, I never said to call everything in a game. However, why do we have rules, if they are not there to be administered? They didn't make the rule and say "When traveling occurs, only call it 2/3 of the time, or when you personally feel it will advance the quality of the game". It says "When traveling occurs, here's the penalty". I find it funny that listening to our rules interpreter, he is giving us the information by the book. The officials still go out and call whatever they feel like or want to under the circumstances of the game. Why go over the rules by the book, if officials aren't supposed to follow it? I can find the "Call everything by the rules" stated very clearly - in the rules, as the rules - here's the foul/violation, here's what you're supposed to call. Nowhere in there does it say "Call what you want when you want, and ignore the rest whenever you want."
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David A. Rinke II |
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Are they game saving calls? You have to define this. If you mean game-changing, absolutely under the right circumstances. A screwed up throw-in by a team down 2 points with several seconds left would take away their chance to win. Should we get the call right, or should we ignore the violation in favor of letting them get the chance? I vote for the first option - always - get the call right. But what about: 1) A clear foul away from the ball, outside my area, because my partner was watching the ball (like he was supposed to) in his area? 2) A clear violation (3 step travel, etc) outside my area, when my partner was obviously distracted by some off-ball heavy physical play in his area? And, as I have been presuming in all cases (and has been brought up contrary to this) - in all cases, I am assuming the foul or violation call is CORRECT - you have been presuming because your statistics show that often calls outside your area are wrong, any call outside the primary must be wrong. I am saying that, under further review, after checking the video and consulting with numerous witnesseses, the call is CORRECT - the foul/violation occurred as viewed by the off-primary person. Answer with this in mind.
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David A. Rinke II Last edited by drinkeii; Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 12:35am. |
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming |
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