Coverage Areas

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Reading problems I see...the comments were directly from the NBA official to me.

If you really want to get into this, your use of "he" in the original statement could have referred to the ref, his son, or your son... so be more clear.

This is a silly argument. You guys feel that mechanics are as important as the rules, which is not correct - we can do the sport without mechanics, it just wouldn't be as organized. We can't have a sport without rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Reading problems I see...the comments were directly from the NBA official to me.

Waste of time, News, waste of time. He ain't ever gonna get it. Might as well let it go.

[OHBBREF]

Have we found our Grammar Guru?

This is a silly argument. You guys feel that mechanics are as important as the rules, which is not correct - we can do the sport without mechanics, it just wouldn't be as organized. We can't have a sport without rules.

The mechanics are there as a tool to help you see the floor better to enforce the rules, in a consistant and fair manner.

Obviously you are a rule book referee, I would suggest that you relax a little and call your primary area perfectly first - then start to worry about others areas.
Only because if you are calling things in someone elses area you might be missing something in your area and then you are back where you started - you are not getting it right.

[blindzebra]

We all want to get the play right, but a big part of getting it right is SEEING THE ENTIRE PLAY, something which is nearly impossible to do if it happens outside of your primary.

There will always be some overlap...where primaries meet, things in the paint, or drives to the basket from one primary into another...and those things need to be hashed out in pregame.

Thinking you see something obvious, and knowing you see it is two very different things. Trust your partner and only go get something that isn't basketball related...cheap shots, punches, elbows, that sort of thing...common fouls and especially violations leave alone.

As for the studies, the WNBA did a breakdown on lead calling across the paint, and when they did they got it wrong 75% of the time.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

As for the studies, the WNBA did a breakdown on lead calling across the paint, and when they did they got it wrong 75% of the time.

Great statistic! I'll be sharing that with my HS crew. That is the major thing we want to get away from. I joined a 2 man crew last season and with all of us, some of the 2 man habits stuck around. I don't feel like I do it often, but I'm sure I do it more than I want to think I do.

[tomegun]

This is funny! He is actually arguing for ball watching.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by tomegun

This is funny! He is actually arguing for ball watching.

Am I wrong in remembering that you have argued repeatedly that we should be aware of what's happening outside our own areas? I'm trying to recall the phrase you used, something like "see globally, call locally" or something like that.

Though the conversation has gotten sidetracked a bit, I don't think he's arguing for ball watching. I think he's arguing that there are times when we can and should help our partner with a call in our partner's area. But he feels that some partners' "No Fishing Allowed" policy is sometimes counterproductive and gets in the way when an official should help his partner.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my sense of what he's really talking about.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Am I wrong in remembering that you have argued repeatedly that we should be aware of what's happening outside our own areas? I'm trying to recall the phrase you used, something like "see globally, call locally" or something like that.

Though the conversation has gotten sidetracked a bit, I don't think he's arguing for ball watching. I think he's arguing that there are times when we can and should help our partner with a call in our partner's area. But he feels that some partners' "No Fishing Allowed" policy is sometimes counterproductive and gets in the way when an official should help his partner.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my sense of what he's really talking about.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is never an instance where calling out of your primary is not only okay, but the correct thing to do.

But what is being suggested is that partners sometimes go fishing for guppies, when the catch needs to be a great white.

[Gimlet25id]

It amazes me that often times we get so concerned with who's call it is /isn't that we lose focus of what really matters. THE GAME.

First of all I'm not saying that if we see it then we need to call it if our partner isn't. First I would ask why are we seeing the supposed missed call by our partner. Thats not to say that in Dual coverage area's that we can't see the same play and give the primary a chance. If he/she doesn't get it then get it, if it has to be gotten.

In fact this is a great area of discussion in your pre game. We can't be so concerned with our EGO's that we lose sight of the objective...to officiate the game as fairly and consistently as possible for both teams. In my neck of the woods we pre game, "If it's on tape lets get the play right." That is also true even if it's not on tape. Lets just make sure if we are going to fish in someone else's pond that we catch a whale not a fish.

LETS GET THE PLAY RIGHT!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

It amazes me that often times we get so concerned with who's call it is /isn't that we lose focus of what really matters. THE GAME.

LETS GET THE PLAY RIGHT!

You can say "the game" is the most important thing, but what does that mean?

If you are making a lot of calls that were not there, is that not hurting the game? If you are watching the ball and you miss all the things that are in your area, are you not hurting the game?

If your partner is standing 6 feet away from a play and you are 20 feet away and he passes on something he is closer to the play, and you see part of the play and make a call, if you ask me that is not getting the call right or helping the game. I do not know what ego has to do with any of this. I know when I blow the whistle there is a reason. I know when I do not blow my whistle, there is also a reason. I do not need help from someone when I know why I do things. If you do not want to work with me, that is OK. But I get paid the same money you do and give me a chance to call the game properly or we should not work together anymore. Then I will likely get fired if I cannot do the job. It is not as complicated as you are making it. There is a reason why some guys get opportunities and other guys sit at home on a regular basis.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Am I wrong in remembering that you have argued repeatedly that we should be aware of what's happening outside our own areas? I'm trying to recall the phrase you used, something like "see globally, call locally" or something like that.

Though the conversation has gotten sidetracked a bit, I don't think he's arguing for ball watching. I think he's arguing that there are times when we can and should help our partner with a call in our partner's area. But he feels that some partners' "No Fishing Allowed" policy is sometimes counterproductive and gets in the way when an official should help his partner.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my sense of what he's really talking about.

You can ask anyone here; you definitely have me wrong about that one! I don't even know who you got that globally stuff from. Thanks for the laugh!

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can say "the game" is the most important thing, but what does that mean?

If you are making a lot of calls that were not there, is that not hurting the game? If you are watching the ball and you miss all the things that are in your area, are you not hurting the game?

If your partner is standing 6 feet away from a play and you are 20 feet away and he passes on something he is closer to the play, and you see part of the play and make a call, if you ask me that is not getting the call right or helping the game. I do not know what ego has to do with any of this. I know when I blow the whistle there is a reason. I know when I do not blow my whistle, there is also a reason. I do not need help from someone when I know why I do things. If you do not want to work with me, that is OK. But I get paid the same money you do and give me a chance to call the game properly or we should not work together anymore. Then I will likely get fired if I cannot do the job. It is not as complicated as you are making it. There is a reason why some guys get opportunities and other guys sit at home on a regular basis.

Peace

Seems like you are solidifing my point. I wasn't justifing that you should call in your partners primary. Thats why I said if you are going to fish make sure it's a whale.

However are there calls that we just miss that a partner could have gotten or did get he saved the crew? I know that missing calls is just part of the process. You said, "I do not know what ego has to do with any of this. I know when I blow the whistle there is a reason. I know when I do not blow my whistle, there is also a reason." Are you saying that you don't miss calls?

We all have some sort of ego to be any good @ this craft. However we also have to understand that there are times that we should thank our partners for saving us and getting a call that the whole arena seen and somehow I had a brainfart and didn't hit the whistle.

[tomegun]

Uh oh, the pro-ballwatchers are growing. There are two or three referees for a reason. There are primaries for a reason. The NBA and WNBA have conducted research on calling outside the primaries. The NBA grades every call - and the officials get into position to make these calls. Oh, they do this without jumping around like court jesters!

If (some) of you guys are so concerned with what is going on in your partners' area(s), who is watching your area?

Why do most of these calls that your partners miss happen where the ball is? Don't your partners who are supposed to be watching off-ball ever miss anything? Odd how that happens huh?

[tomegun]

If I miss enough calls that are "game saving", let me miss them and get fired!

This is what I say and have said in the past, "You're not getting any of my check so you might as well let me call my area."

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Uh oh, the pro-ballwatchers are growing. There are two or three referees for a reason. There are primaries for a reason. The NBA and WNBA have conducted research on calling outside the primaries. The NBA grades every call - and the officials get into position to make these calls. Oh, they do this without jumping around like court jesters!

If (some) of you guys are so concerned with what is going on in your partners' area(s), who is watching your area?

Why do most of these calls that your partners miss happen where the ball is? Don't your partners who are supposed to be watching off-ball ever miss anything? Odd how that happens huh?

C'mon Dude, are you saying it is impossible to see the play with the ball that is in your partners primary without losing off ball coverage. What if you are in the slot and most of the action is on the strong side. You mean you can't see anything on the strong side that is out of your area. Besides were talking about those few plays that the whole place seen except the primary official. That kind of play, bodies on the floor, excessive contact, has to be gotten. You know why... the coach or coach's are going to send that film to the supervisor. The supervisor is going to want to know why no one put a whistle on the play. Screw ball watching...were talking about protecting your partners in dual coverage area's.

As for the WNBA and the NBA they have plays that end up being called by the non primary official. Plays from Center to Lead with secondary defenders.