Ball thrown off backboard

[Scrapper1]

Case play 9.5 makes it clear that it's legal to end your dribble, throw the ball off your own backboard, and then catch it.

I was asked today about this variation.

Player ends his dribble, throws the ball off his own backboard, the ball then bounces on the floor, and then the player recovers it.

Because the ball hit the floor, is the throw considered to be the start of another dribble? (The dribble begins by throwing or batting the ball to the floor. . .)

[BillyMac]

I have a love/hate relationship with this interpretation. 9.5 describes a legal situation that is not an illegal (double) dribble, but it doesn't tell us what can legally, or illegally, happen next. For example, can the ball be legally caught by the thrower? Some just call the throw a try and move on from there, but that can be debated.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: his/her own backboard. RULING: Legal. A team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

Fundamental 19: A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same
as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches the thrower’s
backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Case play 9.5 makes it clear that it's legal to end your dribble, throw the ball off your own backboard, and then catch it.

I was asked today about this variation.

Player ends his dribble, throws the ball off his own backboard, the ball then bounces on the floor, and then the player recovers it.

Because the ball hit the floor, is the throw considered to be the start of another dribble? (The dribble begins by throwing or batting the ball to the floor. . .)

If the rule allows throwing the ball off your backboard after ending a dribble, that would be the same as ending a dribble and throwing it off the back of a teammate or opponent and starting a new dribble regardless if the player caught the ball in the air or let it bounce first, right? Go down to 9.5.3

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

If the rule allows throwing the ball off your backboard after ending a dribble, that would be the same as ending a dribble and throwing it off the back of a teammate or opponent and starting a new dribble regardless if the player caught the ball in the air or let it bounce first, right? Go down to 9.5.3

Is the backboard the same as another player? I don't see backboard listed in 9-5.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: his/her own backboard. RULING: Legal. A team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is the backboard the same as another player? I don't see backboard listed in 9-5.

9.5.3 SITUATION: A1 is dribbling in backboard and ends the dribble, but defensive
pressure prevents a pass to A2. A1 then passes the ball so it touches B1. A1
recovers the loose ball in backcourt and dribbles again. RULING: No violation.
When A1’s pass was touched by, or touched, another player, he/she may start a
new dribble. The 10-second backcourt count continues.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

I think the rules makers are quite sure we know the distinction. Simply put, the rule (4-15-1) allows the player to use his/her backboard in the same legal manner as throwing the ball off any player (9.5.3). That's all many of us need to know or care to discuss.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Simply put, the rule (4-15-1) allows the player to use his/her backboard in the same legal manner as throwing the ball off any player ...

I don't believe that it's that simple. I see no rule, or interpretation, that states that the player may use a backboard in the same manner as throwing the ball off another player.

In fact, 9.5 SITUATION states that the backboard is "equipment" which is certainly not the same as a player. 9.5 SITUATION has always left a lot of questions unanswered.

Also, 9-5 is very clear in defining an illegal (double) dribble, with two exceptions that do not involve a try, with neither of these two legal exceptions mentioning the ball being thrown off a backboard, but rather, specifically referring to the ball touching other players, either teammates, or opponents, but no mention of backboard.

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when the ball touches a player’s own
backboard.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Case play 9.5 makes it clear that it's legal to end your dribble, throw the ball off your own backboard, and then catch it.

I was asked today about this variation.

Player ends his dribble, throws the ball off his own backboard, the ball then bounces on the floor, and then the player recovers it.

Because the ball hit the floor, is the throw considered to be the start of another dribble? (The dribble begins by throwing or batting the ball to the floor. . .)

I vote "no."

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when the ball touches a player’s own
backboard.

People continue to use that dribble definition but it is not all inclusive/encompassing/complete. Recall that throwing the ball off the opponent's backboard is considered a dribble. Not entirely relevant to this post but again, let's not focus on just one part of a definition and think that is all there is to it. Officials, myself included, tend to do that too much.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Recall that throwing the ball off the opponent's backboard is considered a dribble.

Good reminder. Throwing off opponent's backboard is indeed a dribble. Throwing off a player’s own backboard is not a dribble.

Originally Posted by bucky

Not entirely relevant to this post ...

Agree, but still worth mentioning as long as it doesn't confuse the young'uns (like my earlier post that cited the wrong interpretation).

Let's give this another look:

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: his/her own backboard. RULING: Legal.

And ... Crickets chirping. Waiting with bated breath.

I still want to know with NFHS certainty what A1 can legally do after the ball hits the backboard and rebounds back toward A1 (assuming that the throw is definitely not considered to be a try)?

I would sleep better if we could fast forward this situation and take a close look at what could NFHS legally, or NFHS illegally, happen next in regard to A1's next action.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: his/her own backboard. RULING: Legal. And ... Crickets chirping. Waiting with bated breath. I still want to know with NFHS certainty what A1 can legally do after the ball hits the backboard and rebounds back toward A1 (assuming that the throw is definitely not considered to be a try)? I would sleep better if we could fast forward this situation and take a close look at what could NFHS legally, or NFHS illegally, happen next in regard to A1's next action.

I'll play (assuming that the throw is definitely not considered to be a try, nor is it considered to be a fumble).

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: his/her own backboard. RULING: Legal.

And ...

A1 doesn't move his feet and catches the ball off the backboard? Legal.

A1 does move his feet and catches the ball off the backboard? Legal (one can't travel unless one is holding the ball (with rare exception).

After catching the ball, A1 attempts a shot, passes the ball (which includes the possibility of a bounce pass), or requests a timeout? Legal.

After catching the ball, A1 throws the ball to the floor, the ball bounces off the floor, and contacts A1's hand? Illegal (double) dribble (a player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of: a touch by an opponent, or a pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player).

That's my story and I'm sticking to it for as long as it takes before somebody tells me that I'm wrong at which point I will fold up my tent and silently steal away.

[deecee]

Send me a note when something like this actually happens in a game of consequence...until then who cares either way. I personally have no whistle on this.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

Send me a note when something like this actually happens in a game of consequence...

Several years ago a Forum member posted a video of a college player dribbling diagonally left to right down the lane, jumping to shoot, seeing that shot would be blocked, purposely throwing the ball off the far right side of backboard (no way was it a try), catching the ball, and passing it to a teammate in the right corner for an open three pointer that was nailed.

May have been Duke, or North Carolina. I've tried several times, but I can't find the video.

Too bad I can't find it, the play was "real and spectacular" (with apologies, and a tip of the cap, to Teri Hatcher).

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Several years ago a Forum member posted a video of a college player dribbling diagonally left to right down the lane, jumping to shoot, seeing that shot would be blocked, purposely throwing the ball off the far right side of backboard (no way was it a try), catching the ball, and passing it to a teammate in the right corner for an open three pointer that was nailed.

May have been Duke, or North Carolina. I've tried several times, but I can't find the video.

And I'm sure none of the officials were "reprimanded" in case this was wrong, or did they get it right? The point being these 1 in 20 year plays are "great" to get right if/when they happen but it seems like some officials focus on these unicorns and not enough on what actually happens in games day in and day out.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

And I'm sure none of the officials were "reprimanded" in case this was wrong, or did they get it right?

It was posted for discussion purposes, don't remember an official NCAA response, just a bunch of us yapping on the internet.

Note: For some reason, I do remember Teri Hatcher on Seinfeld.

[Zoochy]

OK...
Any ball Thrown by Team A from behind the 3-Poiint arc towards their basket and gos in is counted as 3 points. NO judgement if a Pass or Try.
So any ball Thrown by Team A towards their basket and contacts the backboard is a Try.
It is a bad attempt to score, but it is an attempt