Ball thrown into Dead ball territory

[MASS F/B UMP]

Federation Rules, R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B. Batter hits slow ground ball to F4, F4 dives and the drops ball. R2 slides into 2B and then F4 throws ball past F3 into dead ball territory.
Initial ruling R1 scores, R2 to 3B, BR to 2B.
Ruling after Offense Coach appeal to Base umpire - R1 & R2 score, BR to 2B. (Base umpire acknowledges that R2 had contact with 2B prior to throw by F4)
Ruling after defense coach appeal to both umpires - R1 scores, R2 to 3B, BR to 2B. Plate umpire states that runners get 2 bases from the base they were on at the time of the pitch. At this point Offense coach tries to protest game, Plate umpire states that this is not a call that can be protested, play ball.

I am a parent of player on offense, I also umpires fastpitch (ASA) and officiates FB (Mass HS - NCAA rules), I try my best to know the rules but this one makes me question my understanding of runner placement after a ball goes into dead ball territory. Is Federation different than ASA on dead ball runner placement.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MASS F/B UMP

Federation Rules, R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B. Batter hits slow ground ball to F4, F4 dives and the drops ball. R2 slides into 2B and then F4 throws ball past F3 into dead ball territory.
Initial ruling R1 scores, R2 to 3B, BR to 2B.
Ruling after Offense Coach appeal to Base umpire - R1 & R2 score, BR to 2B. (Base umpire acknowledges that R2 had contact with 2B prior to throw by F4)
Ruling after defense coach appeal to both umpires - R1 scores, R2 to 3B, BR to 2B. Plate umpire states that runners get 2 bases from the base they were on at the time of the pitch. At this point Offense coach tries to protest game, Plate umpire states that this is not a call that can be protested, play ball.

I am a parent of player on offense, I also umpires fastpitch (ASA) and officiates FB (Mass HS - NCAA rules), I try my best to know the rules but this one makes me question my understanding of runner placement after a ball goes into dead ball territory. Is Federation different than ASA on dead ball runner placement.

Same rule, same application. Second ruling, 2 bases from runners' locations at time of throw was correct.

This was a misapplied rule, and should have been eligible for protest, IF your state allows protests (not all do).

[CecilOne]

R1 & R2 score, BR to 2B (if not at 1st before throw).

PU is ???

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

R1 & R2 score, BR to 2B (if not at 1st before throw).

PU is ???

PU is probably a baseball guy. Though not sure how he disallowed the protest.
________
Mature live

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

R1 & R2 score, BR to 2B (if not at 1st before throw).

PU is ???

OBR: When the throw out of play is the first play by an infielder, the award is two bases from time of pitch. He very well could have been thinking baseball rules.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

OBR: When the throw out of play is the first play by an infielder, the award is two bases from time of pitch. He very well could have been thinking baseball rules.

Or NSA fastpitch, which uses the same OBR ruling. At least there he would have been thinking of the right sport!

But he definitely wasn't thinking NFHS softball.

[marvin]

On the first throw by an infielder in NSA FP the award is two bases from the time of the pitch unless all runners, including the batter-runner, have advanced one base. If all runners have advanced one base at the time of the throw then the award is based on the runners location at the time of the throw.

Rule 8-1-5-e-2

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by marvin

On the first throw by an infielder in NSA FP the award is two bases from the time of the pitch unless all runners, including the batter-runner, have advanced one base. If all runners have advanced one base at the time of the throw then the award is based on the runners location at the time of the throw.

Yes, that is correct. It is also exactly the same as the OBR ruling.

Not sure how it would pertain to the play in question, as the position of the runners at the time of the throw isn't mentioned.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Not sure how it would pertain to the play in question, as the position of the runners at the time of the throw isn't mentioned.

R2 slides into 2B and then F4 throws ball past F3

[KJUmp]

What would be the ASA ruling? Time of pitch? OR Time of throw? I do not have access to a current ASA Rule or Case book.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

What would be the ASA ruling? Time of pitch? OR Time of throw? I do not have access to a current ASA Rule or Case book.

Softball - NFHS, ASA, whatever (except apparently NSA) , TOT. TOP only on a pitch that goes dead.

[greymule]

ASA would be time of throw (no first-play-by-infielder clause).

I'm wondering: did this ump have a long beard? Not only was the ruling exactly correct under YSISF rules, but the YSISF would also not consider this ruling protestable. (In fact, no ruling can be protested in YSISF.) This ump may be a recent immigrant who hasn't studied the Fed-ASA-YSISF Rules Differences pamphlet.

Let me know if he needs one. I'll send him a pdf.