Missed Foul- (Video Request)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I'm slightly OCD but I'm watching video again and the defender definitely gets ball first.

I'm not sure its a foul.

I don't agree that getting the ball first means it is not a foul.

If they get the ball and the ball comes loose, I'm probably passing on any subsequent contact on the arm unless I think it prevents the shooter from retrieving the ball (but that wouldn't be a shooting foul).

However, if they get the ball first and slip off onto the arm as the shooter continues to power through, I'm calling that foul. I think that is what happens here. She does appear to be on the ball at first, but the shooter maintains control and the defender's hand slips off the ball onto the right arm as the shooter adjusts and trys to still make the shot. I think this has to be a foul as the contact on the arm is what prevented the shot, not the contact on the ball.

[ODog]

I'm with JRut and no-calling this, VaTerp. Not that it makes you feel any better.

I watched the play about 10 times and I'm just not seeing it. I'm seeing that it's a mess and I'm seeing that her arms aren't vertical and I'm seeing that it's the type of "bad optics" play that fans and coaches will say is a foul all day, but that's why they're not out there officiating a state final. You are.

I'm certainly not interested in the opinion of people in the stands who have a worse look than the C and are even farther away, regardless of how powerful they may be. I also understand that you have to be.

But yes, you could have easily called a foul and nobody would have said a word, not even the opposing coach. Just because it didn't "look" clean. But you stuck to your guns because how it looks and how it IS are very often not the same thing.

We've all been there, kicking ourselves after a huge moment. But hey, you reffed a state final. You're doing more than a few things right!

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't agree that getting the ball first means it is not a foul.

If they get the ball and the ball comes loose, I'm probably passing on any subsequent contact on the arm unless I think it prevents the shooter from retrieving the ball (but that wouldn't be a shooting foul).

However, if they get the ball first and slip off onto the arm as the shooter continues to power through, I'm calling that foul. I think that is what happens here. She does appear to be on the ball at first, but the shooter maintains control and the defender's hand slips off the ball onto the right arm as the shooter adjusts and trys to still make the shot. I think this has to be a foul as the contact on the arm is what prevented the shot, not the contact on the arm.

Notice I said I'm not sure its a foul, not that it wasnt. Live, I passed on it as I did not see the contact on the arm as in the video. And the offensive player seemed to go around and to the inside of the defender instead of "powering through." And the defender got her arm out of there very quickly in real time.

After the game and talking to other officials there I was convinced there should have been a foul. And after initially watching the video I agreed. However, after watching several more times I'm comfortable with my positioning and my judgement even if there were some takeaways to learn from.

As the guy who tossed the ball that night, I do believe that the game needed a foul at that time based on what had been called all night. So I do wish I'd had a whistle or that the C had worked to get a better angle to bail me out. But again, I'm comfortable with why I didnt have a call.

What is bothering me NOW is the clock. I took the first info I got from one partner, asked the other who didnt have anything to offer and just went with it. I should have taken more time, brought everyone's temperature down a bit and made a better decision that resulted in more time being restored.

Lessons learned and if I'm fortunate enough to be in a similar position in the future, hopefully I'm a better official for it.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

What is bothering me NOW is the clock. I took the first info I got from one partner, asked the other who didnt have anything to offer and just went with it. I should have taken more time, brought everyone's temperature down a bit and made a better decision that resulted in more time being restored.

It looks like you are wearing a PTS pack. Why didn't the clock stop on your whistle?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

....

What is bothering me NOW is the clock. I took the first info I got from one partner, asked the other who didnt have anything to offer and just went with it. I should have taken more time, brought everyone's temperature down a bit and made a better decision that resulted in more time being restored.

Lessons learned and if I'm fortunate enough to be in a similar position in the future, hopefully I'm a better official for it.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Did you ever go to the alternate for information?

Did they have PTS for the finals? We didn't have any for the Semi's this year; last year's Semi's we had packs. (I worked my Semi at the Siegel Center this season).

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

It looks like you are wearing a PTS pack. Why didn't the clock stop on your whistle?

Yes, we had PTS. Not sure why it didnt work here.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Did you ever go to the alternate for information?

Did they have PTS for the finals? We didn't have any for the Semi's this year; last year's Semi's we had packs. (I worked my Semi at the Siegel Center this season).

Didnt go to the alternate but I should have. And yes, they had PTS for the finals but not semis this year apparently. My semi at Hampton did not use them either.

[CJP]

In real time, I am calling a foul (from the camera perspective). The defense put herself in a bad situation by coming over the top of the shooters arms when she lost verticality. As a coach, I would be upset with my defense when called for a foul similar to this (had it been called). I have had my players tell me that they didn't touch her and my response was not to put yourself in that situation.

[VaTerp]

Jamestown boys and King’s Fork girls lose in state title game | WAVY-TV

This is supposedly the embed link to a video that is on a TV station's website link. I do not know the origin of the video.

If anyone could embed that it would be great. Doesnt show the drive to the basket but does show the ending sequence, putting time back on clock, and explanation to coach.

Sorry, that just seems to link to TV station website. Maybe its this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%3Ci...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Notice I said I'm not sure its a foul, not that it wasnt. Live, I passed on it as I did not see the contact on the arm as in the video. And the offensive player seemed to go around and to the inside of the defender instead of "powering through." And the defender got her arm out of there very quickly in real time.

After the game and talking to other officials there I was convinced there should have been a foul. And after initially watching the video I agreed. However, after watching several more times I'm comfortable with my positioning and my judgement even if there were some takeaways to learn from.

As the guy who tossed the ball that night, I do believe that the game needed a foul at that time based on what had been called all night. So I do wish I'd had a whistle or that the C had worked to get a better angle to bail me out. But again, I'm comfortable with why I didnt have a call.

What is bothering me NOW is the clock. I took the first info I got from one partner, asked the other who didnt have anything to offer and just went with it. I should have taken more time, brought everyone's temperature down a bit and made a better decision that resulted in more time being restored.

Lessons learned and if I'm fortunate enough to be in a similar position in the future, hopefully I'm a better official for it.

Thanks for all the feedback.

I don't think it's a foul. Defender got the ball and then got her arm out of there quickly. That's why the shot went long. The body language of #2 also tells me she didn't think there was contact on her arm. The video looks bad, but I don't see any contact on the arm.