Missed Foul- (Video Request)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Not sure how you determined 1.4 seconds but I agree my whistle was late and that we should have put at least 0.4 back on clock.

As for the missed foul, I should have stopped on the endline and perhaps would have had a better look.

I also would have appreciated more help from the C but he said he didnt get a good look either.

Overall feedback was that I had a strong game- my partners not so much. And I don't say that to disparage them. Just being honest about what was said. But this end of game situation is really bothering me. Trying to learn from it and move on but I wish I'd stepped up more in the last sequence. That was communicated as well.

I have a mentality on fast breaks as the C -- I sell out and get the best look that I can at the play at the rim. I don't care if it takes me near the end line to get that look.

I don't think the C in your play did that.

[JRutledge]

Breakdown the play:



Peace

[nolanjj68]

VaTerp I missed that foul on my first pass of the video (real-time). Only on the second pass did I see the foul. Don't beat yourself up too much.

[JRutledge]

I do not have a foul on the shot. I have a blocked shot that might have some incidental contact after the ball was contacted. That is not a foul to me and the lead has a great look at it. I have no problem with his angle on the play at all. He is receiving the play as we teach officials to do. He has the best overall angle. The camera angle does not totally help either way if you ask me.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Can someone post the final video after 0.3 seconds has been restored to the clock. For some reason my computer won't play it from the TV station's website.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Rich

Honestly, I thought initially he missed the rotation at the other end. One the ball goes in the bucket, the new T and L have that covered and he could get down the floor a smidge earlier, I think. With such little time left, it would've been better to receive that play from a stationary position.

But you're right -- he covered the ground well.

It's likely a foul, but I'm trying to give the L the benefit of the doubt. Since he's not giving himself the benefit of the doubt, however....

If we aren't are own worst critics then we are doing something wrong IMO. You are correct that I picked up the rotation late. I was locked in on #32- the #1 HS girls player in the country BTW- as I knew the possession was going to run through her.

I noticed the rotation after the shot and in trying to transition from C to new L I took a step too far back and ran into the media table and temporarily lost my balance.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I got my times by using a stopwatch while watching the video multiple times. A luxury which you didn't have.

We agree on where you should have stopped for the best possible look. However, sometimes when sprinting full speed in an effort to hustle and cover the action an official will actually overrun the play and take himself out of position. It is not uncommon. I marvel at how the NBA guys don't do that more frequently in transition given the speed of the players they are observing. Perhaps it has to do with how little space is available to them on the end lines due to cheerleaders, TV cameras, and photographers. They may be conditioned to pull up sooner.

In my opinion, the most important thing you can take from this experience is how the crew handled restoring time to the clock. Given that the NFHS rule has 0.3 seconds as the cutoff for try versus tap, you need to have high certainty when making a decision which is right on that border. As you saw in this game, it can make a major impact. If you have a doubt, then I would recommend erring on the side of at least 0.4 going back up.

I agree on all acounts. Great point about overrunning the play. I agree that I should have stopped at the endline, which may have led to a better look.

As far as putting time back on the clock. I asked my partners and one said very definitively that he had 0.3. Knowing the situation and also knowing I was a little late on my whistle after the ball bounced out I should have gone at least 0.4.

Originally Posted by Rich

I have a mentality on fast breaks as the C -- I sell out and get the best look that I can at the play at the rim. I don't care if it takes me near the end line to get that look.

I don't think the C in your play did that.

He did not. And that was talked about as well by other officials after the game.

Originally Posted by nolanjj68

VaTerp I missed that foul on my first pass of the video (real-time). Only on the second pass did I see the foul. Don't beat yourself up too much.

I appreciate it. I'm just trying to get better like most of us.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not have a foul on the shot. I have a blocked shot that might have some incidental contact after the ball was contacted. That is not a foul to me and the lead has a great look at it. I have no problem with his angle on the play at all. He is receiving the play as we teach officials to do. He has the best overall angle. The camera angle does not totally help either way if you ask me.

Peace

I appreciate your thoughts as well. Live, I thought I had a pretty good look and saw mostly what you saw. However, after the game I talked to at least 7 state level officials, assigners, and/or evaluators. They all had the opposite angle from the video in the thread. And they all had W3 coming across the arm.

I would not feel as bad if we had not called way more fouls than I would have liked in the game and shot 54 FTs.

If you get a chance, JRut I'd like to see the other video link I shared posted as well. Its a different camera angle and also captures what happened after we put time back on the clock.

[VaTerp]

I'm slightly OCD but I'm watching video again and the defender definitely gets ball first.

I'm not sure its a foul.

Agree with Nevada that biggest takeaway is the clock. I should have said 0.5.

They scored and we had to wipe it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I'm slightly OCD but I'm watching video again and the defender definitely gets ball first.

I'm not sure its a foul.

I don't agree that getting the ball first means it is not a foul.

If they get the ball and the ball comes loose, I'm probably passing on any subsequent contact on the arm unless I think it prevents the shooter from retrieving the ball (but that wouldn't be a shooting foul).

However, if they get the ball first and slip off onto the arm as the shooter continues to power through, I'm calling that foul. I think that is what happens here. She does appear to be on the ball at first, but the shooter maintains control and the defender's hand slips off the ball onto the right arm as the shooter adjusts and trys to still make the shot. I think this has to be a foul as the contact on the arm is what prevented the shot, not the contact on the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I appreciate your thoughts as well. Live, I thought I had a pretty good look and saw mostly what you saw. However, after the game I talked to at least 7 state level officials, assigners, and/or evaluators. They all had the opposite angle from the video in the thread. And they all had W3 coming across the arm.

That is all great, but I see arm contact, but the contact starts with the ball from the angle we have. Again, you did not call anything so something did not stand out to you for some reason. Nothing you have said changes my mind, but if you are convinced of something else that is up to you.

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I would not feel as bad if we had not called way more fouls than I would have liked in the game and shot 54 FTs.

If you get a chance, JRut I'd like to see the other video link I shared posted as well. Its a different camera angle and also captures what happened after we put time back on the clock.

I will, but I do not know where to find them. Are they on the Twitter account?

Peace