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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 09:09am
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What is going on with ML baseball umpires

Last nights games

1. Rays vs. the Angels

In the 8th inning Bj Umpton of the Rays hit a chopper down the first base line. He beat the play but for some strange reason 1BU Jerry Meals called Upton out saying that he made an attempt to go to second base.

For those that watch the ESPN highlight show perhaps the myth exists meaning if you turn to the left or even wink there automatically means you attempted to go to second base.

IMO, a horrible call and if a LLWS umpire made that call the Boards would be buzzing today.

2. Phillies vs. Nats

Our old buddy Joe West at it again.

The Nats F2 attempted a pickoff attempt of R1 and threw the ball into right field where the Phillies runner ended up on third base.

However, TIME was called by Joe West who ruled Umpire interference and sent the runner back to first base. In looking at the replays Joe needs to lose some wait.

These were 2 important games and if any of these type plays happened in game 6 / 7 of the World Series Don Denkinger could rest.

In Summary: If these plays happened in any amateur level game that was televised the boards would be BUZZING and the bashing would begin.

FWIW IMO the umpire union should not have asked Joe West back. He seems to be in the middle of just about most contoversies in major league baseball today. Also, I hope the Umpires take a long look at the rediculous call made by umpire Jerry Meals and give someone who is busting his hump in the minors a chance at the show.

Pete Booth
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:00am
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He was called out for "not returning immediately to first base." Watch it again. Absolutely correct call.

About West: You must be kidding. You're blaming West's umpire interference on his "wait?"

I watched the game live. I am one of the biggest Phillies fans alive. I didn't, for a second, blame West for this. Neither did Charlie Manuel, who was a bit confused at first, but accepted the decision without even coming close to getting angry. It's the reason the rule exists -- the umpire that's up in the slot can not be expected to get out of the way of such a thing. It's happened to me once in 20 years, but I enforced it and nobody said a thing other than "I didn't know there was such a rule."

West returned to baseball, was named a crew chief, and has been a WS crew chief and on some of the biggest games in baseball the past few years. So on this, you just have some personal hard-on for Joe, but you're way off base.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:04am
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wow, is there a clip of this? I don't think I've ever seen a play like that...
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08
wow, is there a clip of this? I don't think I've ever seen a play like that...
It's happened twice in the past two days. Joe West called a Mets player out for the same thing on Monday...and also ejected the manager (Jerry Manuel) afterwards.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:20am
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
He was called out for "not returning immediately to first base." Watch it again. Absolutely correct call.


Rich here is the link.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=280819130

He was called out because Meals said he made an attempt to go to second base. Upton can over-run first base. If he didn't touch the base originally then I can perfectly understand the call. I guess we have a difference of opinion on this one. I have NEVER seen this call in all my years of watching baseball.


Quote:
So on this, you just have some personal hard-on for Joe, but you're way off base.
No I do not have a hard on for Joe but he does seem to be in the middle of most controversies - Just ask the coaches and players union what they think of Joe.

Pete Booth
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Last edited by PeteBooth; Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:28am.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:28am
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[QUOTE=PeteBooth]
Quote:

Rich now you are kidding right. Upton can over-run first base. If he didn't touch the base originally then I can perfectly understand the call. I guess we have a difference of opinion on this one. I have NEVER seen this call in all my years of watching baseball.
Ugh. I don't see a quote from Meals in the article. You're taking the word of a sportswriter? You should've heard the Phillies announcers speculating as to the UI call last night. At first they thought Victorino must've interfered with the throw to first. Ha. Ha.

The rule (7.08c) clearly says he must immediately return. He didn't. He hesitated while thinking about making an attempt to advance, stopping for a few seconds. That puts him in jeopardy.

Last edited by Rich; Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:30am.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:31am
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Pete,

As per MLB Rule 7.08(c), a batter-runner is only protected from being tagged out when returning to first base after an overrun if he does so immediately; because Upton just stood down the line from first for a few seconds before returning, the call was correct.

As for West, he really doesn't miss very many calls. He was right on this one, and where do you get off judging anybody by their weight? Weight is a personal matter, and should be left that way. As long as West can get to his calls, which he does quite well, thank you, then his weight should be off-limits to discussion. I've seen quite a few umpires that could stand to gain a few pounds, but I don't comment about how anorexic they look.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
No I do not have a hard on for Joe but he does seem to be in the middle of most controversies - Just ask the coaches and players union what they think of Joe.
Joe West is a crew chief. He is bound to get in the middle of any controversy that happens to his crew. He has only 4 ejections this year, which is quite average for MLB umpires at this time of year, and far fewer than the ejection leader has.

Please provide some direct quotes from coaches and players concerning Joe West. I've never heard that he was disliked at all. I've only heard good comments, even from umpire-bashing announcers. He always seems to be talked about in a positive light.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
No I do not have a hard on for Joe but he does seem to be in the middle of most controversies - Just ask the coaches and players union what they think of Joe.
His bosses, apparently, think the world of him. If I were him, that's all that would matter to me -- not what the rats think. Why would he care about that?
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:52am
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Talking bad timing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Pete,

...and where do you get off judging anybody by their weight? Weight is a personal matter, and should be left that way. As long as West can get to his calls, which he does quite well, thank you, then his weight should be off-limits to discussion...
Now, Steve, read Pete's post carefully. He said Joe needed to lose some wait. I thought he meant Joe's timing was too slow; i.e., his wait was excessive. If Joe had made the call quicker, using proper timing, there would have been no discussion of his excessive wait.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 12:00pm
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Talking Now that's funny and I don't care who ya are!

Good thing I wasn't drinking coffee or you would owe me a keyboard! LMAO!
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Joe West is a crew chief. He is bound to get in the middle of any controversy that happens to his crew. He has only 4 ejections this year, which is quite average for MLB umpires at this time of year, and far fewer than the ejection leader has.

Please provide some direct quotes from coaches and players concerning Joe West. I've never heard that he was disliked at all. I've only heard good comments, even from umpire-bashing announcers. He always seems to be talked about in a positive light.
Joe, who I can say I will soon be a fellow alumnus of Elon University with, does have a reputation.

In a poll (I believe it was SI)among players in MLB, perhaps from 4 years ago, several questions were asked. Two of them included "Who is the umpire you want doing a big game" and "Who is an umpire you DONT want doing a big game".

Guess who was in the top 10 answers for both questions

Seriously though, all that matters is what the big wigs think of him; they are really the best to judge such a thing. And they seem to like him just fine.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 01:24pm
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I have no problem with the call (I just saw it on SportsCenter).

Upton clearly started turning to second but stopped when he realized the ball was fielded cleanly on the overthrow. I have made this call a few times and it is clear to me that Angels' fielder thought the very same thing and that is why they tagged him.

I do not care what media members and coaches think about this. This is something I do not see high school players do.

Peace
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11
Joe, who I can say I will soon be a fellow alumnus of Elon University with, does have a reputation.
I may be wrong but I thought he went to East Carolina, like me...
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Ump
I may be wrong but I thought he went to East Carolina, like me...

J O E W E S T
CREW CHIEF
MAJOR LEAGUE SERVICE TIME: 26 Years
CAREER: Joined the major league staff in 1978...has worked
the All-Star Game (1987), Division Series (1995, 2002), League
Championship Series (1981, 86, 88, 93, 96, 2003) and World
Series (1993, 97)...previously umpired in the Western Carolinas
League (1974), Florida Instructional League (1974-76),
Carolina League (1975-76), Southern League (1976), American
Association (1976-77) and Puerto Rican League (1977).
PERSONAL: Joseph Harry West...born on October 31, 1952 in
Asheville, NC...currently resides in Weston, FL...married Jean
Jo Mason... designed and patented Wilson Sporting Goods
umpire equipment for Major League Baseball...attended East
Carolina and Elon College...inducted into the South Atlantic
League Hall of Fame in 2002...Quarterback of the Elon College
football team, MVP in his senior year...elected to the Elon
College Sports Hall of Fame
...singer/songwriter, Joe has performed
with Merle Haggard, Bobby Mackey, Bonnie Owens,
Mickey Gilley, Box Car Willie, T.G. Sheppard and Charlie McCoy
and the Hee Haw Band at the Grand Ole Opry.



TUSS WINS!
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