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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
...attended East
Carolina and Elon College
...


TUSS WINS!
i see a tie. if tuss was the runner, then he wins.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 03:45pm
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We're both right, I mentioned he graduated from Elon, Emp. Ump. said he went he was a Pirate.

Both are true...
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 04:48pm
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Joe West is originally from Asheville, NC--attended East Carolina and graduated from Elon---He was quarterback for 3 years at Elon and led them to the NAIA bowl game in Shreveport, LA in 1973 where they lost to Abilene Christian 42-14. Joe Worked the Western Carolina-Carolina League in 1974-75 with Drew Coble, another Elon College Graduate who was in the American League(Crew Chief) and was fired in 1999 as he was home nursing his wife who had terminal cancer even though he never signed any papers whatsoever. Judge Symonic reinstated Joe West and Drew Coble because they had been unfairly terminated, and Drew Coble decided he had enough and retired while Joe continues to this day. Joe was named Crew Chief upon his return (pretty darn good for a guy who is so terrible and was fired). He worked the 2005 All-Star game, Division series and World Series.

The above is all on the internet in various places, including the trials from 1999-2002 strike and firings although I might be hard pressed to find them now.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 09:59pm
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Joe was one of the last umpires who did not work a full AA season before being called up to AAA in 1976 (Tim Tschida is one of the others)(Montague and McSherry skipped AA altogether) and also worked his first NL game in 1976. Joe worked AAA and NL in 1977 before signing with NL in 1978.

MLB has plenty of time to scout and evaluate every umpire in AAA for their compentency as a MLB Umpire, so Blake Cullen or whoever was National League President in 1978 was never forced to hire Joe as a NL Umpire.

I'm sure Joe's umpiring reputation and no-nonsense style was known long before he was hired and I'm sure that style fit well with umpiring supervisor Al Barlick (Hall of famer) at the time, along with his outstanding plate and base work on the field. So, when the National League hired Joe, they knew what they were getting and therefor condoned all phases of his umpiring and competency or they would not have hired him, and this is true for all the AAA Umpires that are hired by MLB.
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 10:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Last nights games

1. Rays vs. the Angels

In the 8th inning Bj Umpton of the Rays hit a chopper down the first base line. He beat the play but for some strange reason 1BU Jerry Meals called Upton out saying that he made an attempt to go to second base.

For those that watch the ESPN highlight show perhaps the myth exists meaning if you turn to the left or even wink there automatically means you attempted to go to second base.

IMO, a horrible call and if a LLWS umpire made that call the Boards would be buzzing today.

2. Phillies vs. Nats

Our old buddy Joe West at it again.

The Nats F2 attempted a pickoff attempt of R1 and threw the ball into right field where the Phillies runner ended up on third base.

However, TIME was called by Joe West who ruled Umpire interference and sent the runner back to first base. In looking at the replays Joe needs to lose some wait.

These were 2 important games and if any of these type plays happened in game 6 / 7 of the World Series Don Denkinger could rest.

In Summary: If these plays happened in any amateur level game that was televised the boards would be BUZZING and the bashing would begin.

FWIW IMO the umpire union should not have asked Joe West back. He seems to be in the middle of just about most contoversies in major league baseball today. Also, I hope the Umpires take a long look at the rediculous call made by umpire Jerry Meals and give someone who is busting his hump in the minors a chance at the show.

Pete Booth
Sir, there's no gambling at Bushwood....and I never slice

Where do I sign up for the Pete Booth school of "never making mistakes"?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 10:42pm
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With all due respect, guys, I believe Meals kicked that call. I've seen batter-runners do worse than that and never get called out when tagged. Meals making that call is splitting not hairs but the atom. To put it bluntly, I think it was a terrible call.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel
Sir, there's no gambling at Bushwood....and I never slice

Where do I sign up for the Pete Booth school of "never making mistakes"?
gambling is illegal at bushwood, sir.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP25
With all due respect, guys, I believe Meals kicked that call. I've seen batter-runners do worse than that and never get called out when tagged. Meals making that call is splitting not hairs but the atom. To put it bluntly, I think it was a terrible call.
It looked as if Upton was trying to avoid the rolling baseball and never attempted to go to second.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 20, 2008, 11:47pm
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If one paid attention to Meals comments on the field, you can easily see that he said, "...made an attempt."

First, there's no way Upton made an attempt. Second, the "return immediately" aspect of overrunning first base rarely ever is invoked when tagging a B-R because it's so vague and so nonspecific. I've tried every way I can think of to justify the out on Upton because he didn't "return immediately," but I can't. The fact that that was not the reason Meals called him out is even more puzzling.

Oh well, on to the next bizarre situation.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 21, 2008, 02:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck
gambling is illegal at bushwood, sir.
How about a Fresca?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 21, 2008, 10:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP25
First, there's no way Upton made an attempt. Second, the "return immediately" aspect of overrunning first base rarely ever is invoked when tagging a B-R because it's so vague and so nonspecific. I've tried every way I can think of to justify the out on Upton because he didn't "return immediately," but I can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
He was called out for "not returning immediately to first base." Watch it again. Absolutely correct call.
Finally saw a replay. RichMSN wins.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 21, 2008, 10:44am
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel
Sir, there's no gambling at Bushwood....and I never slice

Where do I sign up for the Pete Booth school of "never making mistakes"?
I never said I didn't make mistakes. My point which perhaps I didn't make clear was thiis.

If we saw both those calls made by say a LLWS umpire on TV or an other amateur umpire on TV, for the most part they would have been bashed.

I have been watching baseball a long time and have NEVER seen the call that Meals made especially in the BIG LEAGUES.

I make mistakes all the time but I also do not get paid 6 figures.

Pete Booth
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 21, 2008, 10:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
I never said I didn't make mistakes. My point which perhaps I didn't make clear was thiis.

If we saw both those calls made by say a LLWS umpire on TV or an other amateur umpire on TV, for the most part they would have been bashed.

I have been watching baseball a long time and have NEVER seen the call that Meals made especially in the BIG LEAGUES.

I make mistakes all the time but I also do not get paid 6 figures.

Pete Booth
If you have not noticed, most people that come here bash whomever they are talking about. Even if the games are not on TV. That is the nature of this board and that is the nature of the internet. And MLB Umpires get bashed all the time on this site about plays they miss or make. LLWS Umpires only get criticism at a certain time of year. And this year little has been said about the LLWS as in past years.

Peace
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 21, 2008, 11:02am
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IMO, Meals blew that call. I seen it on sports center. There was no attempt to go to second what so ever.

I don't agree with some of your interpretations that the runner didn't "immediately" return to first. What the runner did should not have been in violation of the rule. Calling an out here for not returning immediately, IMO, is not what is intended by the rule and is pretty OOO.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 21, 2008, 12:02pm
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Meals blew it. Upton doesn't have to turn around and sprint back to the base as fast as possible. That is never called, especially in the majors. Quit trying to justify it just because he's an MLB umpire.
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