Getting It Right - Your Thoughts?

[Atl Blue]

“Hello, Conference Officiating Director here. Coach, I hear you...but, you’ve only been here one year. I’ve seen this crew work dozens of times and they are the second rated crew in our conference. I know that you think they should appeal that swing, but you know how umpires are. They probably talked in the locker room and have a contingency for coaches that ask for that call. Uh, huh...the rule book states that. Yep, no argument here. Did you lose the game? Uh, huh...did that call affect the outcome of the game. Oh, you lost 14-2. Your appeal is denied, but I’ll call the crew chief and alert him to your concerns. Good luck coach. I’ll talk to you after your next loss.” CLICK

From the Conference Officiating Director:

"Hello, Windy. Why in the h#ll would you not ask for a simple checked swing appeal when a coach askes, particularly when he protests? For &&^%& sake, just point to your partner when he asks. How tough is that?

I don't want to hear this complaint from a coach again. It's stupid, and it's too easy to fix. Just ask.

Besides, the rules say you have to. Why give him something else to gripe about. Geez."

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Windy
“Hello, Conference Officiating Director here. Coach, I hear you...but, you’ve only been here one year. I’ve seen this crew work dozens of times and they are the second rated crew in our conference. I know that you think they should appeal that swing, but you know how umpires are. They probably talked in the locker room and have a contingency for coaches that ask for that call. Uh, huh...the rule book states that. Yep, no argument here. Did you lose the game? Uh, huh...did that call affect the outcome of the game. Oh, you lost 14-2. Your appeal is denied, but I’ll call the crew chief and alert him to your concerns. Good luck coach. I’ll talk to you after your next loss.” CLICK

Or, more likely:

"Coach, who did that? Never heard of 'em. No, I don't know how the hell he got assigned to your game, but I'll sure the hell look into it. Sure as hell doesn't sound like one of my guys...my guys know the rules. Sounds more like one of them internet types, you know the ones...post anonymously so they lie about their resumes. Hell, if every internet umpire who claimed to work D-1 games were telling the truth we'd be up to our freakin' armpits in umpires."

[WindyCityBlue]

Gordon,
You need to read closer. I'm not going to spell it out for you. We already have one moderator that has proven his worth. Many others have attempted and failed. I've not made it that difficult, but some of you want it handed to you on a silver platter.

Garth,
That was about as shameless as the old fart in Michigan. I used to think that your writing was inciteful and courageous, but that last one tipped it in for me. You claim that I'm the coward but you are the king of the hit and run. Guys like you jump on the pile after someone else makes the tackle. No wonder you aren't sworn anymore. You can't argue with the facts, so you make it personal. I wouldn't want someone like you on the job either.

AtlBlue,
Have you ever been in a D-1 game? Have you ever strapped 'em on for any level of Minor League ball? Until then, don't tell me how to act with my partners and coaches. Reading 101 should have afforded you teh ability to understand my statement. "I don't have a problem making the call from there, but my partners and that conference don't want it." I believe that I even conceded to Papa C. that I will make every attempot to honor a request from a coach or player to grant the appeal. When we have been instructed by the Conference's Assignor/Director of Umpiring not to make that call from those positions, we don't have much of an option. Maybe you've second-guessed one of those guys before. I haven't and I have a schedule.

[gordon30307]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
[B]Gordon,
You need to read closer. I'm not going to spell it out for you. We already have one moderator that has proven his worth. Many others have attempted and failed. I've not made it that difficult, but some of you want it handed to you on a silver platter.

Defense Council. I object to that question.

Prosecutor. It goes to credibility your honor.

Judge. Defendent is ordered to answer the question.

To paraphrase Shakespear: Methinks the man doth protest to much.

[mick]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
That was about as shameless as the old fart in Michigan.

WindyCityBlue,
Are you calling me out?
Are you calling on me?
Are you calling me flatulence breath?
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

WindyCityBlue,
Are you calling me out?
Are you calling on me?
Are you calling me flatulence breath?
mick

LOL!

You've been Windy-ied, Mick.

[WindyCityBlue]

Mick,
You are from the UP and as far as I know, not a shameless old fart. As a Yupper, during Deer season, I would think you'd be more aware than that. When is the last time that I ever got in a p*ssing match with you?

Secondly, if I called anyone out, they would know it. As you can see by his quick response, he knows where it was aimed.

Lastly, I am not afraid of anyone on this site. Your fellow baseball moderator has a pretty good inkling of who I am. He may be embarassed by some of the things I've said in the past (hell, I am!) but if he believes he knows, he's being guarded for a very good reason. I like him, but he knows I hold a Royal Flush and few of you know it.

[mick]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Mick,
You are from the UP and as far as I know, not a shameless old fart. As a Yupper, during Deer season, I would think you'd be more aware than that. When is the last time that I ever got in a p*ssing match with you?

Okay, WindyCityBlue.
That other old fart isn't a Michigan old fart.
To my knowledge, I am the only one that meets that description, cuz Sandlin is just a young (Compared to me) Michigan fart.
mick

Oops! M'bad.
Sorry, Sal. Yer a Michigan fart, too.



[Edited by mick on Oct 22nd, 2004 at 06:04 PM]

[Sal Giaco]

WCB Wrote:
"As I said, I work with multiple NCAA crews, depending on the conference. On one crew, we NEVER grant the appeal when my 3BU is in C or my 1BU is in B. I feel that I can make the call from that angle, but I've deferred to their experience. In that conference, we have a couple of coaches that go apesh*t when that call gets made from that angle"


WCB,
With all due respect (although I don't respect you), if a fellow college umpire told me not to come to him for help on a check/half swing because he was in B or C, I'd tell him to go f' himself. When I go to an umpire for help on a check swing, I don't give a rat's a$$ where he's standing, I want him to give me what he's got. And guess what, skip isn't going to say anything because he knows that he would be arguing balls and strikes and we know he doesn't want to do that.

Old school umpires say I won't change your call when I'm in the middle - those are the same guys that are "living and dying" with their calls because they're too proud to get help. Those guys won't be around much longer in NCAA ball if they don't change their ways. At the D-I level and also in independent ball (Frontier League), more and more umpires are going to say in the pregame..."When I come to you on check swings, give me what you got." Anything different, I don't want to work with them again.

[Edited by Sal Giaco on Oct 22nd, 2004 at 06:08 PM]

[DG]

Pre-game: If the coach or catcher appeals a check swing I will come to you for your opinion, wherever you are. If I missed a strike I want it back, otherwise, I would expect you to say "no, he didn't go". Simple.

[jumpmaster]

Rut, Windy, AtlBlue, et al have illustrated a point that I have attempted to make within my association.

Coaches at the high school level, by and large, are not hired to be baseball coaches. Rather, they tend to be hired as football coaches are tasked to coach baseball b/c they played the game. In my state, the 5A schools are the exception.

Handling a coach that was tasked to coach baseball is much different that handling a coach that was hired to coach baseball. A coach that was hired to coach baseball tends to know the game, the strategy and the nuances of the game, including manipulating the umpires.

Rut's statements are indicative of one that works ball where the coaches are inexperienced and what we call "stupid". They also indicate that even though he may have called Ju-Co and/or D3 ball, it was as a fill in, evaluation, or test basis. For what ever reason, he has not developed beyond that level. This is not a slight against Rut, just a read of his comments from the board.

Those that work baseball at a level where the coaches are hired and their jobs depend on their success on the baseball field, tend to be more receptive to a coach that comments. In my limited experience at this level, few, if any coaches frequently whine about stupid stuff. This is the exact opposite of the volunteers or "tasked" coaches that are associated with baseball below the NCAA level.

[jumpmaster]

off topic!

Atl Blue,
I am bringing 10 from my association to the Southern Clinic. 8 of these are in the top 15 umpires in our 80 umpire association. If you are part of the staff, I look forward to meeting you and hearing some of your ideas in person. Please email me with any advice or prep that we should do prior to showing up.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
Rut's statements are indicative of one that works ball where the coaches are inexperienced and what we call "stupid". They also indicate that even though he may have called Ju-Co and/or D3 ball, it was as a fill in, evaluation, or test basis. For what ever reason, he has not developed beyond that level. This is not a slight against Rut, just a read of his comments from the board.

You are right about the differences between college and HS coaches. Around here baseball is really not that big of a deal, so you see even more turnover with varsity baseball coaches.

You are totally wrong about filling in or not filling in. First of all, anyone that lives in this part of the country has to at some point fill in. The weather is too volatile to always have the same umpires working games that are originally assigned. Rain and snow is common schedule changers in these parts. So at some point anyone working a game is going to have to fill in. I have had entire weeks erased because of the whether. Guess what? The assignors had to make changes to fill games. So most of the college I work is assigned before the season starts. None of that affects my point of view on this issue, because I will admit that most of what I am talking about has nothing to do with college umpiring. But I do not have games where college coaches are always asking for appeals or opinions of the "other" umpire. They tend to go right to the source. If they feel you do not belong at that level, they will see fit to not have you back. I still feel you are not obligated to ask for help when the mechanics or rules do not permit it. And I guess if coaches dictate when we get an appeal, I would like someone to explain to me when the last time they got an appeal for pitch call?

Peace

[Sal Giaco]

Originally posted by JRutledge
They (coaches) tend to go right to the source. If they feel you do not belong at that level, they will see fit to not have you back. [/B]

Jeff,
I disagree because "black balling" or "red lining" of umpires by coaches is on it's way to being a thing of the past in college baseball - atleast here in the Midwest (Big Ten, MAC, Horizon conferences etc.) The Supervisor of Officials in this area has been trying to eliminate this unfair tactic by coaches and has been doing an excellent job in doing so.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
Jeff,
I disagree because "black balling" or "red lining" of umpires by coaches is on it's way to being a thing of the past in college baseball - atleast here in the Midwest (Big Ten, MAC, Horizon conferences etc.) The Supervisor of Officials in this area has been trying to eliminate this unfair tactic by coaches and has been doing an excellent job in doing so.

I am not talking about scratching umpires. I am saying you will not be back because you cannot do the job. That is totally different than a coach not wanting you to come back to his school. But I know people that worked games at all level, screw up and find themselves not working any more or very little. I cannot speak for the D1 conferences, because I have no idea or real desire to work them in the game of baseball.

Peace