Quote:
Originally posted by Atl Blue
OBR
9.02 c) The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing. Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail
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My first question to you is do you have the reference to FED or NCAA Rules? Because referencing OBR is irrelevant to the games I work. I only work games in the spring for the most part. When I do work in the summer which is very rare, they use FED and NCAA Rules. I do not care what the OBR rulings on this issue are. It does not apply to me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Atl Blue
The catcher comes up pointing to the base ump on a checked swing and you don't think this is an appeal? What's he doing, giving directions to the nearest McDonald's? Of course it's an appeal! And if you don't ask, you're the fool. What can happen? Either your partner agrees with you, or you get another strike. Both of these are good things.
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He can point all he wants to. At the FED level and rules, the umpire decides if there is to be an appeal made. At the college level we encouraged to ask for an appeal almost all the time. But I never ask for an appeal if I have already determined the batter struck at the ball. It is ultimately the umpire's decision, not the fact they simply request.
Quote:
Originally posted by Atl Blue
But if a coach comes out and reasonably asks if I could get help, or if I had a clear view, or if I am 100% sure, I will absolutely go to my partner.
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Who said anything about them being "reasonable?" This is not an issue as to how they come out and how they act; this is about do you ask for help because they come out. My answer is still no. Not because I do not listen to them or I have to stick to what I feel, but I am not asking for help every time a coach asks for it, because it is always not appropriate or reasonable from my point of view. There are many situations that as an umpire I am going to make a call because I have some responsibility (or my partner does as well) at what is taking place. A perfect example is when a batter hits a ball and the ball comes close to hitting him or hits him. In all the mechanics I know of, when that happens both the PU and the BU can call the ball dead. But you seem to have a coach that wants help on a play that is very obvious and would have been called dead if a batter touched a ball. Now the PU might make the decision if the batter is out, but it does not eliminate the possibility of the BU saying "dead ball!" Why do I need to appeal a situation like that when I have discussed that very play in pregame and we come to the conclusion that is the proper thing to do? Every time the ball bounces funny, it seems like a coach wants us to believe that our partner is going to help on a play they are watching in the first place. It would be about as absurd as asking for help on a balk call, that is everyone's call. You do not appeal calls that we have responsibility for. If you do, so be it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Atl Blue
A coach absolutely has an effect on whether you might ask for help, and he should. JR, I have battled Windy here, although it's almost always more on style than substance. But on this one, he is 100% correct and you are WAY off base. And I don't need help from my partner to see that one. But if the coach wants me to ask, I will.
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I am glad you have confidence in your point of view and the point of view of those that agree with you. But I have had many HS coaches ask for appeals when it is not appropriate at all. Not only is the calling umpire on top of the play, the other umpire is not at all in position to help. Coaches have no influence with me. If they do with you, so be it. Life goes on and so will the game of baseball. But I will do what has worked for me and received the respect first with my partners and anyone else that gives a damn. The fact you used an OBR reference shows we are not on the same umpiring page to begin with.
Peace