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Had a F/V Double last night. During Frosh match had visitor tryo pull the libero from LB to CB during the same dead ball. Home coach objects so I tell her I saw it and instructed V coach that to do that libero must sit out for one serve (rally). She does as I instruct, however I failed to penalize her with the unnecessary delay. Then home V coach complains saying that she must replace the same 2 players. I explain this is common practice but not necessitated by rule that she may replace any back row player. She proceeds to bring out her rule book then I show her under 10-4-1a. Frosh match end then I go to other gym where my partner was finishing the JV match to join him and both do the varsity.
During the Varsity match Libero replaces #3 goes to serve then when it comes time to rotate to LF libero comes out #3 goes to Substitution zone where #12 comes in. Home V coach goes nuts "she can't do that" because now #12 is really replacing the libero. #12 rotates back serves then libero comes in for #12. Coach argues that she can only come in for #3 at that positionbecause that exchange had already been made so I read 10-4-1b to her and explain that she may only come out when the player she went in goes back in but she may go back in for anybody. The frosh coach and I argue about it (she was the scorekeeper). V Coach tells the table to stop arguing with me I'm wrong and won't give in. We go back to game and I remember ex on page 59 show it to frosh coach who gets real doubtful because she was they were wrong!! I show Varsity coach who changes subject and says while your "playing" with the card on your wrist your missing girls in the net. Then I yellow card her. But I had forgotten my cards so I verbalized it to her and to the table that I forgot them and was giving her one. Would it be wrong to tell coaches up front that if they question my rule knowledge they welcome to bring out the book but if they do they will be carded when the rule is found and they are wrong? Flip side If I were wrong I would correct the call. |
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I'll take a stab at this.
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Was the coach trying to say that the libero is limited to only replacing two specific players? Quote:
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Also after a discussion with the leagues assignor he told me he had two or three score sheets and libero tracking sheets in front of him where the visiting varsity coach had sent the libero in to serve then the girl she replaces goes to the LF position while that girls leaves. In essence that means that she got away with putting the libero in for a front row person and fliping the server and that front row person. I suspect that the home coach caught wind that she was doing something illegal (and getting away with it) with the libero and questioned anything not commonly practiced with the libero. I also caught the visitor out of rotation three times and had the coach tell me they had been lining up all year like that and had never had a problem with it. Pretty bad when I have to explain rule 6-3-2b to a V coach. One was the setter so I don't know how it was missed even by guys who just keep in mind the setter and her opposite. I on the other hand prefer to go through the whole line-up with the way that is easiest to remember usaully making the line-up into a date or phone No. I practice this up top with out a card and have caught several alignments on the serving team this way. Quote:
As a side note during a TO I want out to the stand and talked to the R and he asked "she don't like you does she?" I think she was still upset about some of my calls two weeks earlier including blowing an illegal attack for calling a FR player for putting the ball down that had not began to clear the net when no one was under her (I screwed that last part up and called it). Note: In my state the coaches submit ratings on us and this comes into play deciding who gets state tournaments. When you have the nations winningest VB coach in your area and I've never gone toe to toe with him (I think that's how he wins is he coaches his team and not me), this woman wasn't even in the league below him. I love working small schools! lol Last edited by klo376; Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 12:19am. |
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I might be totally off base on this one, but if the coach has no time outs left, the coach cannot use a time out to challenge a call made.
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[FONT="Arial"]["You must be the change you want to see in the world."-Gandhi/FONT] |
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Now I'm not sure how to handle a coach who repeatedly wants to review rule application. If the referee doesn't reverse, the coach is penalized by LOR/point to the opponent; should there be an additional punishment, such as UD, a card for the continual interruption of the game? I don't know. Maybe a couple of the experienced officials will comment. |
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You have penalized the delay. They are allowed to review incorrect decisions. If they are wrong, they are penalized. No need to interject additional (and incorrect) sanctions.
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Felix A. Madera USAV Indoor National / Beach Zonal Referee FIVB Qualified International Scorer PAVO National Referee / Certified Line Judge/Scorer WIAA/IHSA Volleyball Referee |
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So, in your example, 8 incorrect reviews does not result in 8 UD's and it's corresponding penalty; 8 incorrect reviews results in either the coach having to burn his remain time outs and when he no longer has a time out left, then LOR/point. It seems unreasonable and flies int the face of common sense that the rules permit a coach to make repeated challenges of the officials'' rulings. So, when I commented on what to do with a coach who continually requests reviews and he consistently does not prevail, there is, by rule, a mechanism to deal with that type of situation: 1. An assessment of UD (in addition to LOR/point for the unsuccessful challenge). UD does not only apply to the listed violations ("Unnecessary delay includes, but is not limited to when:") or (and probably more appropriate) 2. The administration of a yellow or red card to the coach (in addition to the LOR/point for the unsuccessful challenge). 12-2-8l specifically addresses this situation and permits this penalty. I think that 8 unsuccessful challenges goes beyond simply assessing the LOR/point; there is more to be addressed. A coach who does something like that is making a mockery of the game, and of the officials who permit it to continue. Of course this is all just .02 from a newer official. |
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