Slow Pitch Umps

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I have neer been dinged by any evaluator, or anyone, for using the double fist to signify the ball hitting the plate.

I have stayed out of this a bit just to let the other voices of experience (and those who give a sh** about doing things right) BUT...................

If you want to use a weird mechanic and thus "teach" the teams you work with that doing things half_a$$ is what you are all about, then fine.
Have fun.
If you want to do things right, help the teams have a good game without conflict, and be able to understand the umpires they do have that are good.

THEN DO IT RIGHT.

I worked for years to learn all that I could about proper mechanics and still keep learning as the requirements change. I take pride in myself and my fellow blues.
I expect the game to be done correctly by me and my partners.
But then again, I have had higher aspirations as to game assignments.
I wanted to become a ASA Gold umpire at first,
Then I wanted to be a member of the National Indicator Fraternity
Then I wanted to become as ASA ELITE,
Then I wanted my ISF.

I achieved my goals.
Working around 35 - 38 Nationals over the years.
I have enjoyed the time with many great memories.

One thing I have found at every National I have ever worked,
Team complaints about the "umpire back home" who did this or that etc that had nothing to do with proper mechanics or rules application.

So, if you don't give a rat's a$$ about doing it right for your own games, consider and show some respect for your fellow blues and stick to the prescribed mechanics so we don't have to "re-educate" the teams when they make it to a regional or a national tounament.

This really is about respect,
Your respect for the game and your responsibility to the teams that you serve.
OK

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

I have stayed out of this a bit just to let the other voices of experience (and those who give a sh** about doing things right) BUT...................

If you want to use a weird mechanic and thus "teach" the teams you work with that doing things half_a$$ is what you are all about, then fine.
Have fun.
If you want to do things right, help the teams have a good game without conflict, and be able to understand the umpires they do have that are good.

THEN DO IT RIGHT.

I worked for years to learn all that I could about proper mechanics and still keep learning as the requirements change. I take pride in myself and my fellow blues.
I expect the game to be done correctly by me and my partners.
But then again, I have had higher aspirations as to game assignments.
I wanted to become a ASA Gold umpire at first,
Then I wanted to be a member of the National Indicator Fraternity
Then I wanted to become as ASA ELITE,
Then I wanted my ISF.

I achieved my goals.
Working around 35 - 38 Nationals over the years.
I have enjoyed the time with many great memories.

One thing I have found at every National I have ever worked,
Team complaints about the "umpire back home" who did this or that etc that had nothing to do with proper mechanics or rules application.

So, if you don't give a rat's a$$ about doing it right for your own games, consider and show some respect for your fellow blues and stick to the prescribed mechanics so we don't have to "re-educate" the teams when they make it to a regional or a national tounament.

This really is about respect,
Your respect for the game and your responsibility to the teams that you serve.
OK

It is rather presumptious and unprofessional for you to bash anyone,especially one you do not know.

The signal I desribed, the double fist for ball hitting the plate, violates no standard covered by ASA. I find it useful at several levels in making the game enjoyable and informational for the players.

I would never use it at an advanced level of play since it would be of no value.


I am glad you reached your goals, although I am sure one of them was not to be rude.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

It is rather presumptious and unprofessional for you to bash anyone,especially one you do not know.

The signal I desribed, the double fist for ball hitting the plate, violates no standard covered by ASA. I find it useful at several levels in making the game enjoyable and informational for the players.

I would never use it at an advanced level of play since it would be of no value.


I am glad you reached your goals, although I am sure one of them was not to be rude.

Presumtious of me to bash you???????????????
That could be but I doubt it.
I do bash umpires that make the real umpires look stupid by your omission of proper mechanics.
The signal you describe DOES INDEED violate standards covered by ASA for you to say otherwise is arrogant and stupid thus worthy of bashing.
One of my goals has been to use any means necessary to get sub-standard umpires to improve their game.
That has included being blunt, rude, beratting in fun and sometimes telling an umpire to go home.
It has also included having tons of fun, teaching, exhorting, etc.
It also has included the pleasure of seeing those who are teachable reach a deserved regional and national assignment.

Hey, if you are content to be a slug and stink up the field, so be it.
Just don't expect any kind words from real umpires, Ok?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The signal I desribed, the double fist for ball hitting the plate, violates no standard covered by ASA.

You're ignoring the UIC's on here that state it should not be used. UIC's don't make up their standards for what should and shouldn't be done, as far as I know.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

Presumtious of me to bash you???????????????
That could be but I doubt it.
I do bash umpires that make the real umpires look stupid by your omission of proper mechanics.
The signal you describe DOES INDEED violate standards covered by ASA for you to say otherwise is arrogant and stupid thus worthy of bashing.
One of my goals has been to use any means necessary to get sub-standard umpires to improve their game.
That has included being blunt, rude, beratting in fun and sometimes telling an umpire to go home.
It has also included having tons of fun, teaching, exhorting, etc.
It also has included the pleasure of seeing those who are teachable reach a deserved regional and national assignment.

Hey, if you are content to be a slug and stink up the field, so be it.
Just don't expect any kind words from real umpires, Ok?

I have seen over 30 different rule books and umpire's manuals(or variastions) since I started umpiring. The suggested mechanics have changed dozens of times. The constants center on hustle, a thorough knowledge of the rules, and to dress and behave professionally.

I made a comment about a technique that hundreds of ASA umpires, and others, use and said I liked it. It is well within the parameters of techniques that each umpire uses to manage a game.

You may not like the technique which is your choice.

Your responses, however, hardly reflect the level of achievement you claim to have.

[Dakota]

Here is my take on this topic:

1) The prescribed mechanics and signals are so partners can work with each other first time on the field and so players, coaches, and fans will know what the umpire's call is without having to hear the verbal.

2) Many umpires object to limiting themselves to these mechanics and signals because of everything from local custom to a built-in rebellious streak.

3) Non-standard signals and mechanics are evidence of a less well-trained umpire or one who basically doesn't give a damn about what his sanctioning body requires or recommends. He's gonna do it his way and nobody can stop him.

4) The fist-pounding serves no useful purpose. It communicates no information that the players need to have to know what they should do. It is no different from any other call of "ball". If there is no stealing, they don't do anything anyway. If there is stealing, the dead ball call works, is standard, and everyone understands what it means.

Fist pounding is hardly the only example of non-prescribed signals. It is, however, evidence of... well, see #3.

No one is going to change Mr Piano's mind, and if you browse the other boards on this site, you'll notice that his internet personna is at least consistent.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Here is my take on this topic:

1) The prescribed mechanics and signals are so partners can work with each other first time on the field and so players, coaches, and fans will know what the umpire's call is without having to hear the verbal.

2) Many umpires object to limiting themselves to these mechanics and signals because of everything from local custom to a built-in rebellious streak.

3) Non-standard signals and mechanics are evidence of a less well-trained umpire or one who basically doesn't give a damn about what his sanctioning body requires or recommends. He's gonna do it his way and nobody can stop him.

4) The fist-pounding serves no useful purpose. It communicates no information that the players need to have to know what they should do. It is no different from any other call of "ball". If there is no stealing, they don't do anything anyway. If there is stealing, the dead ball call works, is standard, and everyone understands what it means.

Fist pounding is hardly the only example of non-prescribed signals. It is, however, evidence of... well, see #3.

No one is going to change Mr Piano's mind, and if you browse the other boards on this site, you'll notice that his internet personna is at least consistent.

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual and is a well established custom in the leagues our association officiates. We sent three umpires to the nationals last year, alone.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual and is a well established custom in the leagues our association officiates. We sent three umpires to the nationals last year, alone.

And again, we see the arrogance of a willful ignorance that manifests itself in magnanimous fashion.

Why am I beginning to think this guy is a troll?

[Dakota]

I note you didn't dispute #4. So, why do it?

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

Really? The second part of #3 doesn't fit you? Gosh, ya fooled me.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual ...

Not true. ASA Umpire Manual, Slow Plate Mechanics, Calling Balls and Strikes,

The umpire is not to be an announcer or broadcaster on the field. Let the people broadcasting the game describe the pitches... All the umpire should say is 'ball' or 'strike'. Describing the pitch is a cop out for an umpire... use only a slight body motion toward the location of the pitch.

There is more, but you aren't interested anyway.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I have neer been dinged by any evaluator, or anyone, for using the double fist to signify the ball hitting the plate.

This could only be construed to mean that you have never been actually or adequately evaluated, now doesn't it?

Just what association do you belong to?
To what part of the US can we ascribe this aberration of the known world?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I note you didn't dispute #4. So, why do it? Really? The second part of #3 doesn't fit you? Gosh, ya fooled me.

Not true. ASA Umpire Manual, Slow Plate Mechanics, Calling Balls and Strikes, There is more, but you aren't interested anyway.

There is no verbal with the double fist,,,,so the admonition about being a broadcaster or an announcer has no bearing on the discusion.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I am not changing after 35 years to become a clone.

That last sentance says it all.
I may not have worked slow pitch for 35 years but have for 25 plus.
I have had to change mechanics many times over the years and didn't like the changes at first in most cases.
However, I wanted to do the game right so I changed.
The whole thing is attitude, an attitude of respect for the game, players and your fellow blues.

You attitude is one reason the Player Reps and other council members see umpires as a only slightly necessary evil presence in the ball games.

You Jimmy P are one of the reasons that umpires such as Mike are ignored at the National Council meetings when there is a change that is needed.

Thanks for nothing, and while you are at it.........
give those game fees back to the little ole church league you work

THAT IS A CUSTOM, TRIED AND TRUE, AROUND HERE.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

There is no verbal with the double fist,,,,so the admonition about being a broadcaster or an announcer has no bearing on the discusion.

I understand that you have no intention of changing, let alone admitting you are wrong on this board, but you conveniently overlook the only body motion prescribed for a ball. I also said there were other instructions to umpires on making the ball call, but since you are not interested, I'm not going to waste my time typing them. Suffice it to say, your claim that the fist pounding signal does not violate ASA umpire mechanics and signals is wrong. You can continue to claim it isn't wrong, but it is.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I understand that you have no intention of changing, let alone admitting you are wrong on this board, but you conveniently overlook the only body motion prescribed for a ball. I also said there were other instructions to umpires on making the ball call, but since you are not interested, I'm not going to waste my time typing them. Suffice it to say, your claim that the fist pounding signal does not violate ASA umpire mechanics and signals is wrong. You can continue to claim it isn't wrong, but it is.

That would be your interpretation, not mine.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

That last sentance says it all.
I may not have worked slow pitch for 35 years but have for 25 plus.
I have had to change mechanics many times over the years and didn't like the changes at first in most cases.
However, I wanted to do the game right so I changed.
The whole thing is attitude, an attitude of respect for the game, players and your fellow blues.

You attitude is one reason the Player Reps and other council members see umpires as a only slightly necessary evil presence in the ball games.

You Jimmy P are one of the reasons that umpires such as Mike are ignored at the National Council meetings when there is a change that is needed.

Thanks for nothing, and while you are at it.........
give those game fees back to the little ole church league you work

THAT IS A CUSTOM, TRIED AND TRUE, AROUND HERE.

I hope you get another 25 years. Umpiring is enjoyable, although I must say I run into more arguments and rude behavior on here than I ever do on the field.