Slow Pitch Umps

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, actually the OP offered the possibility the ball hitting the ground in front of the plate as an IP. The first response separated the IP from dead ball. However, the recent responses were to Tom who stated he gives a DB signal on an IP. We were just seeking clarification to avoid confusion for any non-veteran umpire.

However, there is a prescribe mechanic for a ball hitting the plate or ground in front of the plate or the batter which is described on page 225 of umpire manual section of the 2007 ASA Umpire Edition of the rules book.

It is a good mechanic to use for all SP games whether stealing is being allowed or not. For years, umpires have been pointing to the plate, pounding their fists or making some other type of silly looking signal to indicate to the pitcher that the ball hit the plate. ASA has now provided a standard mechanic for this occurence and I see no reason why it should not be utilized when applicable.

Unless a pitched ball is illegal for another reason one that simply fails to get over the plate is a ball and is dead, unless there is stealing.

Page 225 refers to games with stealing and the prescribed mechanic has no meaning in games where there is no stealing, i.e almost all slow pitch softball games.

The umpire is under no obligation to explain, visually or verbally, why a ball is a ball,,,,,but the universal pounding of the fists is clear to all players,including the "umpires" at shortstop and in the outfield, that the ball did not cross the plate.

Whoever invented it should get royalties.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Unless a pitched ball is illegal for another reason one that simply fails to get over the plate is a ball and is dead, unless there is stealing.

Page 225 refers to games with stealing and the prescribed mechanic has no meaning in games where there is no stealing, i.e almost all slow pitch softball games.

The umpire is under no obligation to explain, visually or verbally, why a ball is a ball,,,,,but the universal pounding of the fists is clear to all players,including the "umpires" at shortstop and in the outfield, that the ball did not cross the plate.

Whoever invented it should get royalties.

I guess I don't see in the mechanics where "pounding the fists" is a prescribed mechanic... especially a "universal" one. Can you explain how that's done, or where in the umpire manual that it talks about that?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Unless a pitched ball is illegal for another reason one that simply fails to get over the plate is a ball and is dead, unless there is stealing.

Page 225 refers to games with stealing and the prescribed mechanic has no meaning in games where there is no stealing, i.e almost all slow pitch softball games.

Excuse me for being a smart ***, but no ****! There had to be something put in place to accommodate the players and BU in the situation prescribed. That doesn't mean you just ignore it's value.

The umpire is under no obligation to explain, visually or verbally, why a ball is a ball,,,,,but the universal pounding of the fists is clear to all players,including the "umpires" at shortstop and in the outfield, that the ball did not cross the plate.

Whoever invented it should get royalties.

Actually, the indication is that the ball hit the plate. Many lazy or intimated umpires point to the ground and say "short" when the ball hits in front of the plate.

Nonetheless, since you are on page 225 of the umpire manual, maybe you should check paragraph 11 on the opposite page.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SRW

I guess I don't see in the mechanics where "pounding the fists" is a prescribed mechanic... especially a "universal" one. Can you explain how that's done, or where in the umpire manual that it talks about that?

It is not in the manual.

It is simply a mechanic of experience that serves a purpose.

[jimpiano]

"There had to be something put in place to accommodate the players and BU in the situation prescribed"

Sure, for games in which there is stealing. But since most games do not have stealing the mechanic is useless.

I never use a hand signal to describe the location of a pitch. I do use the fist hit to let everyone know the ball hit the plate.

If that is not your style, so be it. It is, after all, my game when I am behind the plate, and yours when you are there.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

It is not in the manual.

It is simply a mechanic of experience that serves a purpose.

bull****...


The jackass that invented that lazy, half-assed mechanic should be shot along with the moron who invented closed fist pounding for a full count....

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

bull****...


The jackass that invented that lazy, half-assed mechanic should be shot along with the moron who invented closed fist pounding for a full count....

If you dont like it, don't use it.

I think it is the greatest and most useful signal ever invented. And there is no doubt in anyone's mind, even in co-ed or church league as to what it means.

[HawkeyeCubP]

1. Pounding the fists is sloppy, good-ol'- boy, and lazy-looking, is not an official mechanic, and does a disservice to those of us who strictly follow ASA mechanics while working ASA slow pitch games. There are people in my association who do this - they are, I'll be so bold as to say the EXACT same group of umpires who also never drop to the set position while calling pitches, point to 1B on most walks, and button hook in about 1/5 of the time when out on the bases. Odd how they are not the ones who are invited to work the state, regional, or national tournaments.
2. To be fair, the table on p. 187 of the 2007 Umpire Manual does say "slow pitch with stealing," when referring to the new mechanic. So it could be said that the book says to do it both ways.
3. If my UIC mandated what Mike is suggesting for games without stealing, I wouldn't mind, but that's not how it is as of this moment. I don't currently do or say anything other than "ball" when an otherwise legal, pitched ball hits the plate.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Whoever invented it should get royalties.

You are correct. They should get royalties. Here is a quarter so he can go call all the other lazy ******* who use this mechanic.

The other thing that gripes me about it is when I hear this from players: "Why don't you give that signal like the other umpires do?"

Umpires that use unapproved mechanics, just like those who work a game in half a uniform, no uniform or a sloppy uniform, do a disservice to every other umpire, no matter if they wear a blue, red, white, gray, green, black or some other color shirt.

Why do some point to first? Do THAT many batters still not know the way to first base? Why do we hit our fist with our palm or palm with our fist on a ball that hits the plate? Would we use that signal on an uncaught foul ball when it strikes the ground beyond a base? why not? People use it all the time to signal a dead ball.

Just as it is either a ball or a strike, it is either live or dead. If I point at the ground, you can bet your a$$ it's a fair ball. Bull$hit mechanics bring all of us down, whether it is half-baked buttonhooks, mirroring your partner on foul ball calls (or even worse, the ball/strike count) and crappy mechanics.

More after supper...I just got home from a slow pitch double header. I pointed toward fair territory four times during the games - to signify foul balls. I did not hit my fist with my palm. I survived.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

You are correct. They should get royalties. Here is a quarter so he can go call all the other lazy ******* who use this mechanic.

The other thing that gripes me about it is when I hear this from players: "Why don't you give that signal like the other umpires do?"

Umpires that use unapproved mechanics, just like those who work a game in half a uniform, no uniform or a sloppy uniform, do a disservice to every other umpire, no matter if they wear a blue, red, white, gray, green, black or some other color shirt.

Why do some point to first? Do THAT many batters still not know the way to first base? Why do we hit our fist with our palm or palm with our fist on a ball that hits the plate? Would we use that signal on an uncaught foul ball when it strikes the ground beyond a base? why not? People use it all the time to signal a dead ball.

Just as it is either a ball or a strike, it is either live or dead. If I point at the ground, you can bet your a$$ it's a fair ball. Bull$hit mechanics bring all of us down, whether it is half-baked buttonhooks, mirroring your partner on foul ball calls (or even worse, the ball/strike count) and crappy mechanics.

More after supper...I just got home from a slow pitch double header. I pointed toward fair territory four times during the games - to signify foul balls. I did not hit my fist with my palm. I survived.

God forbid we should ever use a non-prescribed book mechanic that actually helped a player understand the game.

Why should we point to first base when a 35 year old office manager walks in her first game ever?

Or hit our fists to let a 60 year old minister know his pitch was a ball because it hit the plate?

Well, without the players enjoying the game, we have no job.

We owe everyone hustle, a knowledge of the rules, and the mechanics that puts us in position to see the play.

How we signal a strike or a sellout defines us and cannot ever be copied from a book written by a committee.

So, pardon me, if I use my individuality to make calls and to use signals the players can understand and learn from.

I am not changing after 35 years to become a clone.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

God forbid we should ever use a non-prescribed book mechanic that actually helped a player understand the game.

Why should we point to first base when a 35 year old office manager walks in her first game ever?

Or hit our fists to let a 60 year old minister know his pitch was a ball because it hit the plate?

Well, without the players enjoying the game, we have no job.

We owe everyone hustle, a knowledge of the rules, and the mechanics that puts us in position to see the play.

How we signal a strike or a sellout defines us and cannot ever be copied from a book written by a committee.

So, pardon me, if I use my individuality to make calls and to use signals the players can understand and learn from.

I am not changing after 35 years to become a clone.

No, please..DONT change..that makes it easy for us to identify who you are..... enjoy your church league.....

[shipwreck]

John, you pointed to fair territory 4 times to signal foul balls???????????? Hmmm, Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

God forbid we should ever use a non-prescribed book mechanic that actually helped a player understand the game.

Why should we point to first base when a 35 year old office manager walks in her first game ever?

Or hit our fists to let a 60 year old minister know his pitch was a ball because it hit the plate?

Well, without the players enjoying the game, we have no job.

We owe everyone hustle, a knowledge of the rules, and the mechanics that puts us in position to see the play.

How we signal a strike or a sellout defines us and cannot ever be copied from a book written by a committee.

So, pardon me, if I use my individuality to make calls and to use signals the players can understand and learn from.

I am not changing after 35 years to become a clone.

You're right, we're wrong.

Isn't that amazing, all the games I've worked and I just found out I'm supposed to look like a clone!

If you had any experience at the upper levels, you would see that all those who do it right, all do it a little bit differently. None of us look the same on the field, yet we all subscribed to the prescribed mechanics.

Just continue doing what you do. It actually makes the guys who do it right look that much better. And for that, thank you.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I think it is the greatest and most useful signal ever invented.

Are you serious?? Of all the signals we use, this is the greatest and most useful??? Wow!

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You're right, we're wrong.

Isn't that amazing, all the games I've worked and I just found out I'm supposed to look like a clone!

If you had any experience at the upper levels, you would see that all those who do it right, all do it a little bit differently. None of us look the same on the field, yet we all subscribed to the prescribed mechanics.

Just continue doing what you do. It actually makes the guys who do it right look that much better. And for that, thank you.

Mike,

The only right way is to hustle and know the rules. After that game management is determined by the umpire and the players in the game. A hand signal that helps them understand is hardly a tool that should be held against an umpire. The double fist is appropraite at some levels and not needed in others.

I simply thank whoever invented it becauase it has been a useful tool over the years in letting all the players in the field know what happened.