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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 06, 2013, 08:25am
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Snap before ready to play

Offense makes first down 20 yards down field and runs a quick offense. Chains are in the process of being moved and ball is spotted. Umpire is somewhat standing close to the ball and Ready for play has not been blown. The snapper snaps the ball.
The two things to remember: 1. Chains not set 2. Ready-for-play not giving.

What we got?
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Old Sun Oct 06, 2013, 09:53am
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Sub-varsity: probably a "don't do that" in most cases; tight JV game I might treat as varsity.

Varsity: DOG 3-6-2e
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Old Sun Oct 06, 2013, 10:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
Sub-varsity: probably a "don't do that" in most cases; tight JV game I might treat as varsity.

Varsity: DOG 3-6-2e
Well is it delay of game, false start? Would you have 1st and 10 or 1st and 15?
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Old Sun Oct 06, 2013, 10:29am
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Originally Posted by sorrydog View Post
Well is it delay of game, false start? Would you have 1st and 10 or 1st and 15?
Ah, I see your real question. You'd enforce the DOG 5 yards, set the chains for the new series, and have A 1/10 from there.

The line to gain is not established until the RFP. 5-3-1

It can't possibly be a false start, since the ball was not ready. 7-1-7
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Old Sun Oct 06, 2013, 10:07pm
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And according to what was written in a thread here about a week ago, in NCAA, you've got a real problem, since they're not required to "chop", whistle, or otherwise signal the RFP if the 40-sec. rule is in effect. Team A has no notice other than looking at the chain crew of whether they're allowed to snap the ball or not.
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Old Sun Oct 06, 2013, 11:49pm
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
And according to what was written in a thread here about a week ago, in NCAA, you've got a real problem, since they're not required to "chop", whistle, or otherwise signal the RFP if the 40-sec. rule is in effect. Team A has no notice other than looking at the chain crew of whether they're allowed to snap the ball or not.
The notice is that if ball is on the ground but it cannot be snapped yet, the umpire will tell the snapper not to snap the ball.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 12:14am
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Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
The notice is that if ball is on the ground but it cannot be snapped yet, the umpire will tell the snapper not to snap the ball.
Correct. Sometimes I hold up the snap because I'm waiting for others on the crew to get back to their positions. The RFP is essentially when I step back (Rule 2-2-4a: A dead ball is ready for play when with the 40-second play clock running, an official places the ball at a hash mark or between the inbounds marks and steps away to his position). I'll ask the QB to please give me a second or two to get out of harm's way but they technically can snap it as soon as I step back. It can be dangerous in the middle.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 04:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrydog View Post
Offense makes first down 20 yards down field and runs a quick offense. Chains are in the process of being moved and ball is spotted. Umpire is somewhat standing close to the ball and Ready for play has not been blown. The snapper snaps the ball.
The two things to remember: 1. Chains not set 2. Ready-for-play not giving.

What we got?
The U should be over the ball and prevent the snap.

It's rare that a team should be able to snap before a RFP. Makes me think the R is a little pokey in that aspect of the game. We don't need the full chains set to wind the clock. Spot on a yard line, get the box man close enough to get the yard line verbally by the H (assuming you have a good chain crew), and go. A good box man will realize he's the key and will hustle to the H's spot and the chains can fill in afterwards.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 08:28am
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
And according to what was written in a thread here about a week ago, in NCAA, you've got a real problem, since they're not required to "chop", whistle, or otherwise signal the RFP if the 40-sec. rule is in effect. Team A has no notice other than looking at the chain crew of whether they're allowed to snap the ball or not.
Spoken like someone who has never been on the field. What a load of nonsense.

Next Saturday, find a team that runs the hurry up and watch the umpire.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 10:15am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Spoken like someone who has never been on the field. What a load of nonsense.

Next Saturday, find a team that runs the hurry up and watch the umpire.
Sorry, no time to watch stuff played by NCAA, coaching our own game. In fact, the last time I watched a game played by NCAA, this sort of thing was R's responsibility, not U's.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 10:49am
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Sorry, no time to watch stuff played by NCAA, coaching our own game. In fact, the last time I watched a game played by NCAA, this sort of thing was R's responsibility, not U's.
Fair enough, but if you've not seen an NCAA game in recent memory, perhaps suggesting that the NCAA has problems with a particular rule is not really in your wheelhouse.

Also ... I don't believe the R has spotted the ball in the NCAA in the last ... um ... ever.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 11:14am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Also ... I don't believe the R has spotted the ball in the NCAA in the last ... um ... ever.
Depends on the crew... the mechanics manual says that either the R or the U can spot the ball, although in practice most crews I've seen/worked with let the U spot the ball in almost every situation. The main exception seems to be on a sack with a large loss of distance (15+ yards); then a lot of times the R will spot the ball before the U gets there.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Fair enough, but if you've not seen an NCAA game in recent memory, perhaps suggesting that the NCAA has problems with a particular rule is not really in your wheelhouse.

Also ... I don't believe the R has spotted the ball in the NCAA in the last ... um ... ever.
Ever is a long time. For a very long time that was strictly R's responsibility--starting with when they stopped having team A's snapper put the ball down at the linesman's spot. But it's good they gave that to U, who had more free time once subs stopped having to report to him--and even more free time in 5+ crews when they gave the 25 sec. clock to the BJ.
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 02:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Ever is a long time. For a very long time that was strictly R's responsibility--starting with when they stopped having team A's snapper put the ball down at the linesman's spot. But it's good they gave that to U, who had more free time once subs stopped having to report to him--and even more free time in 5+ crews when they gave the 25 sec. clock to the BJ.
My 1939 rulebook (the earliest I've been able to find ... I collect these) doesn't say one way or another (no mechanics section at all). My 1947 book has a brief mechanics section but doesn't include this, and in the rule it just says "the official". Ditto 1949 and 1952. 1955 specifies spotting the ball as a duty of the umpire.

Does anyone have a copy (or link to) the Waynesburg / Fordham game in 1939 - we could look and see.

In any case, I would still hope you might refrain from saying the NCAA has a problem with a rule since you've not seen a game in quite a while. Maybe?
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Old Mon Oct 07, 2013, 02:27pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The U should be over the ball and prevent the snap.
There is still a brief time where the U has to back off and when I was the WH on my crew, I gave the U time to get into a safe place. Sometimes teams do not listen and snap the ball anyway. Sometimes players just do not listen to our warnings to "not snap the ball."

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