Ready or Snap

sm_bbcoach · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 10:24am

HAd this play last week and I want to confirm myself.

4th and 4 @ k24. k punts ball. R-83 muffs kick @ r42, and K recovers at r43. 1/10 for K. Clock on ready or snap?

I did it on ready since the kick never ended with muff, K reached the line to gain, just a normal 1st down, ball inbounds.

If I am incorrect, please elaborate why.

Thanks!

nvfoa15 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 10:42am

Legal kick... on the snap.

PS2Man · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 11:02am

3-4-3c

"Either team is awared a new series following a legal kick."

Theisey · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 11:11am

First of all, the kick did end.

NCAA rules say the clock starts on the snap after any legal kick. No exceptions.
NF rules say the clock starts on the snap after a scrimmage kick when a new series is awarded to either team.
That's just what happened here.

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 12:17pm

Just to make sure I understand the "exception" (which isn't really an exception to the rule ... just an exception to the rule of thumb that the clock would start on the snap after EVERY legal kick...)

Team A, 3rd and 30 from it's own inch line quick-kicks. The kick is muffed and recovered by A on the 25. 4th and 5 from the 25 for Team A - clock starts on the ready, right? (NF, of course - NCAA it would start on the snap).

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 12:24pm

mcrowder,

All that changed in your scenario was the down. You still have a legal kick. You still have possession after that legal kick. The rule does not make a distinction to what down it is. I will look in the casebook to be sure. But you still start the clock on the snap.

Peace

KSRef · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 01:02pm

Just want to clarify your situation. Do you mean the "snap" was muffed and the ball was recovered by A behind the LOS? Any legal kick that crosses the LOS and is first touched by R (muffed?) will result in a new series of downs to the team in possession at the end of the down regardless of where the ball is recovered.

mcrowder · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 01:24pm

Did that not also change the "awarded a new series" part? I'm not an NF guy, which is why I'm trying to clarify.

JugglingReferee · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 03:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by sm_bbcoach
HAd this play last week and I want to confirm myself.

4th and 4 @ k24. k punts ball. R-83 muffs kick @ r42, and K recovers at r43. 1/10 for K. Clock on ready or snap?

I did it on ready since the kick never ended with muff, K reached the line to gain, just a normal 1st down, ball inbounds.

If I am incorrect, please elaborate why.

Thanks!

Outside of the 3-minute warning, the clock will start ont eh ready for play.

Inside the 3-minute warning, the clock will start on the snap. (1.5.1g)

PiggSkin · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 04:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
Team A, 3rd and 30 from it's own inch line quick-kicks. The kick is muffed and recovered by A on the 25. 4th and 5 from the 25 for Team A - clock starts on the ready, right? (NF, of course - NCAA it would start on the snap).
...
Did that not also change the "awarded a new series" part? I'm not an NF guy, which is why I'm trying to clarify.

In Fed rules, this is still a first down for A, even though the recovery is not beyond the line to gain...

schmitty1973 · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 10:30pm

Doesn't the kick end on a muff? I think the clock should start on the snap because of change of possession.

waltjp · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 23, 2004, 11:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by schmitty1973
Doesn't the kick end on a muff? I think the clock should start on the snap because of change of possession.

A kick ends when a team gains possession of it or it becomes dead. A muff does not end a kick.

jack015 · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 24, 2004, 06:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by schmitty1973
Doesn't the kick end on a muff? I think the clock should start on the snap because of change of possession.

A kick remains a kick until it is posessed or become dead by rule. See the Fundamental Statements section in the Rule Book.

Jim S · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 24, 2004, 11:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
mcrowder,

All that changed in your scenario was the down. You still have a legal kick. You still have possession after that legal kick. The rule does not make a distinction to what down it is. I will look in the casebook to be sure. But you still start the clock on the snap.

Peace

Incorrect Rut. The rule says to start on the snap when a new series is awarded after a legal kick. Otherwise we start on the ready. Here we do not have a new series. Start on the ready.

jack015 · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 24, 2004, 11:29am

Incorrect Rut. The rule says to start on the snap when a new series is awarded after a legal kick. Otherwise we start on the ready. Here we do not have a new series. Start on the ready. [/B][/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree. Paraphrasing from the Fundamental Statements section of the Rule Book, "If R touches a scrimmage kick beyond the LOS, it will be a 1st down for the team in posession when the down ends." K/A is awarded a new series, therefore start on the snap since the previous play was a legal kick.

Anytime a team gets a 1st down, they are awarded a new series (of 4 downs).

[Edited by jack015 on Aug 24th, 2004 at 12:32 PM]