25/40 Play clock

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Not really a big deal, either way, but....The Referee, blowing his whistle to announce the RFP (so that everyone, even those not specifically looking at him, understood the RFP was declared) worked pretty well for 100, or so, years.

Why such a big deal about changing that?

Because it resulted in too much variation in the time from dead ball to delay of game play to play and game to game. This was especially critical at the end of a half when a team is trying to burn as much time as possible and the crew is either placing the ball too quickly and thus not allowing the offense to burn as much time as they want or taking too much time and allowing the offense to burn more time than they should. The other impact is the offense that likes to take their time calling their play, getting to the line, using motion and shifts and snap toward the end of the play clock. If they are commonly getting 40-45 seconds to do this and then suddenly they only get 35 because the ball was placed quickly they have to rush or end up calling a time out or incurring a delay of game.

Other than that the 25-second play clock is OK, but the 40-second play clock allows for a much smoother and consistent flow and takes away one thing the referee has to worry about on many dead balls. The reported results from the trial states was almost unanimous that the officials and coaches much preferred it. That's a pretty solid endorsement.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Not really a big deal, either way, but....The Referee, blowing his whistle to announce the RFP (so that everyone, even those not specifically looking at him, understood the RFP was declared) worked pretty well for 100, or so, years.

Why such a big deal about changing that?

I did not get it either, but I will be a good soldier and do it the way they suggest.

Peace

[CT1]

Why would anyone be against a procedure that insures greater consistency during a game? It’s one less thing for coaches to yell at us about.

[HLin NC]

Unfortunately, the consistency sought is predicated on a play clock operator understanding and implementing the instructions. Most all of our stadiums have a visible play clock for varsity game so our BJ's aren't keeping it except for some JV games. In the three weeks we've played, I've not heard a HC mention anything about the play clock during the game. Pre-game comments have pretty much been "We're learning". Putting an official on the job in our region is not possible given our numbers.

Our state office published the NFHS operator instructions on their website plus issued their own easier to read, simpler format. The state supervisor made sure that all AD's were aware of it.

Week 1)- My best guess is the PCO misunderstood the WH's instruction in pregame because he didn't set the :40 until the U backed away from the ball on every play. He had been told that would be only on a 1st down in-bounds with clock running for the U to insure the box was set. All other plays were to go off the DB or INC signal.

Week 2)- Don't recall any major issues.

Week 3)- All over the map. WH got frustrated and it really distracted him. He had asked the AD to have the PCO report to us for pre-game. I knew when the AD smiled and said "Oh, he's good, he's got it" we wouldn't be seeing him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why would anyone be against a procedure that insures greater consistency during a game? It’s one less thing for coaches to yell at us about.

Because it is not administered consistently. There are already examples of people that do the clock not understanding things or doing something different. So not sure this rule is making things automatically consistently either, especially if not everyone can see the function of the clock.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Other than that the 25-second play clock is OK, but the 40-second play clock allows for a much smoother and consistent flow and takes away one thing the referee has to worry about on many dead balls. The reported results from the trial states was almost unanimous that the officials and coaches much preferred it. That's a pretty solid endorsement.

Sorry, my question apparently wasn't clear. I was simply wondering why, when the actual 25 second RFP is declared, it's recommended to be done silently. For generations, the notice included both a wind, and a whistle (to announce to EVERYONE) that it happened.

Just wondering, what is the reason/purpose/benefit, if any, of changing it to "silent".

[jTheUmp]

2 weeks in here.

Week 1 we had a visible play clock. Only had one issue where the PCO didn't start the 40-second clock correctly, which was corrected by having the PCO reset it to 25 after an officials timeout (which, according to the B, happened almost exactly when the 25-second notification happened on his ReadyRef).

I think there were a couple of times where we had to re-set to 25 after long incompletions (getting a new ball from the ball person? LOL), but it wasn't an issue really since the game clock is stopped in those situations anyway.

Week 2 we didn't have a visible play clock, so the B kept it on his ReadyRef. Again, there were 3 or 4 times where we had to reset to 25 after a long incompletion, but we just took care of that ourselves without the players/coaches noticing (the B would get on the O2O and let us know, but that was it).

I don't remember any DOG fouls in either game.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry, my question apparently wasn't clear. I was simply wondering why, when the actual 25 second RFP is declared, it's recommended to be done silently. For generations, the notice included both a wind, and a whistle (to announce to EVERYONE) that it happened.

Just wondering, what is the reason/purpose/benefit, if any, of changing it to "silent".

If the play clock is set to 25 after a change of possession/adminisitrative stop, etc. then you do blow your whistle with the RFP. The only time you don't is when you are winding the game clock after a first down in bounds. That is not necessarily when the ball is ready for play but I do actually like a quick toot when it happens. For now the NFHS mechanic says no. The NCAA mechanic went back and forth on that one and I think now it's up to each referee. In NCAA they are winding the game clock pretty quickly after the first down/runner out of bounds so the players are usually huddling or returning to their side of the ball (target is 34-35 seconds on the play clock).

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Because it resulted in too much variation in the time from dead ball to delay of game play to play and game to game.

The blowing of the whistle to announce RFP did that?? One of you is answering about timing while the other is asking about signaling.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Because it is not administered consistently. There are already examples of people that do the clock not understanding things or doing something different. So not sure this rule is making things automatically consistently either, especially if not everyone can see the function of the clock.

Peace

I don't understand why clock operators are having issues. It's pretty easy. Play ends, reset the play clock and start. There isn't any more to it than that. if the crew has an administrative stop for some reason or there there was a change of possession/score. set it to 25 and wait for the ready. If you aren't sure set it to 40 and roll it. If there is a stop for some reason the R will give you a pump to set it to 25. The game clock is never rolling at that point so you aren't affecting that at all.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Week 1)- My best guess is the PCO misunderstood the WH's instruction in pregame because he didn't set the :40 until the U backed away from the ball on every play. He had been told that would be only on a 1st down in-bounds with clock running for the U to insure the box was set. All other plays were to go off the DB or INC signal.

This has been reported as an issue but I put that blame mostly on the referee who doesn't know the rule. He's probably getting a lot of other rules wrong too if he doesn't understand this one. I've heard we still have some referees after 4 years who don't have that on straight. I'm guessing they are getting the game clock and play clock confused.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why would anyone be against a procedure that insures greater consistency during a game? It’s one less thing for coaches to yell at us about.

Ever since the WLAF experimented with this type of play clock 30 years ago, it's insured consistency in one thing at the expense of consistency in another. When you base the time to put the ball in play while the period clock is running on period clock time (which is what the 40 second clock does), you achieve greater consistency in the amount of time team A can take off period time. However, when you base it on the time from the RFP, you achieve greater consistency in the interval during which team A is allowed to put the ball in play.

One of those things matters to a team that's just looking to consume time, and of course to their opponents. The other matters to a team that likes to go no-huddle and use a lot of shifts and motions, threatening to put the ball in play at any moment. When the 40-second clock is in effect, they can't start doing that anyway until the RFP. Depending on when the RFP comes, the 40 second clock provides either more opportunity to team A to do that or more relief to team B in limiting team A's opportunity to do that, compared to the 25-second clock.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I don't understand why clock operators are having issues. It's pretty easy. Play ends, reset the play clock and start. There isn't any more to it than that. if the crew has an administrative stop for some reason or there there was a change of possession/score. set it to 25 and wait for the ready. If you aren't sure set it to 40 and roll it. If there is a stop for some reason the R will give you a pump to set it to 25. The game clock is never rolling at that point so you aren't affecting that at all.

I do not know what to tell you. Clock operators at every sport I have ever done do not always do their job. Why? Not paying attention? Not focused at all times? On their phones? Think they have been doing this for a long time they will not screw up? Never done this before in life? Talking to someone else? I have no idea why, but it happens and happens more than I would like. I just know it was not perfectly done in college games, so why do we think that a high school game everything is going to be perfect?

Peace

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Week 3)- All over the map. WH got frustrated and it really distracted him. He had asked the AD to have the PCO report to us for pre-game. I knew when the AD smiled and said "Oh, he's good, he's got it" we wouldn't be seeing him.

We have a 3 strikes policy - after 3 mistakes, we shut down the clock (play or game) and keep it on the field. Hasn't come to that - yet - on Friday but occasionally does on Sat and other subvarsity (and we're not even using the 40 sec clock on sub-varsity, else we'd do it all the time).

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I don't understand why clock operators are having issues. It's pretty easy. Play ends, reset the play clock and start. There isn't any more to it than that. .

Not exactly, but since you asked. The biggest obstacle to consistent Clock operation is....Distractions, which there is an unending, imaginative supply of. Like any other Officiating duty, focus is an acquired skill. Having the advantage (blessing) of working in an area where former Officials (1950s-60s) convinced schools that where field game clocks were used, they would be manned by ONLY certified, active Officials, which has served to minimize problems(and complaints) well.

However some general problems/issues persist and require special attention:

VISIBILITY: Some/many/most HS stadium Press boxes are not as high as we'd like, which causes problems seeing wing officials on both sidelines, especially the closest one, so "signalling" becomes really important. In a perfect world, when any official signals "incomplete" or "Stop the clock", ALL their crew mates repeat their signals, which aids the clock operator in seeing the signal. Some fields have MUCH BETTER lights, than others.

One of everyone's favorite improvements was the conversion to black official's pants, BUT (sadly) they disappear into the background more than the old white knickers, so clear, repetitive signalling has become more important.

Wing officials can get lost in front of either side "Team areas", so the consistently repeated signals of interior field officials is important, especially when the signal may be away from/behind the action. An extra swipe of a TO signal can be very helpful. Some fields allow a lot more people (cheerleaders, special guests, wanderers) along the rest of the sidelines (who tend to congregate along the goal line extended (when allowed to) which further hampers visibility & limits sideline officials movement (and safety)

Although a lot of different people are interested in what & when you signal, remember the ONE you're directing the signal to, is the clock operator. It's not a bad idea, when signalling note the time on the clock, which can help avoid some BS argument efforts. If the clock doesn't stop immediately, KEEP SIGNALLING until it does.

For better, or worse, we're all considered part of the same crew, are dependent on each other, and likely still searching for our FIRST perfect game (no matter how long we've been doing it).