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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 11:10am
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25/40 Play clock

With the season starting soon, how many states have adopted adding a play clock on the field?

Has there been any discussion for states that aren't using the on-field clock how they are planning on handling long incomplete passes? Are they asking teams to have multiple game balls?
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 11:35am
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This is a NF rule so I am not sure there is a state flat out not adding the rule. I guess that is possible but not likely.

Now we in Illinois will be using the rule and there has been some talk about what should be suggested, but there is not a standard policy of extra balls being available. There is a suggestion, but that means we will have some schools doing this and others will not. Even if you have multiple balls, we still will not have the consistency as we do at the NCAA level to even use multiple balls. The issue as I see it is not the multiple balls, it is the multiple ball boys on both sides to help make this work properly.

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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 11:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels View Post
With the season starting soon, how many states have adopted adding a play clock on the field?

Has there been any discussion for states that aren't using the on-field clock how they are planning on handling long incomplete passes? Are they asking teams to have multiple game balls?
Whether they have a visible play clock or not is a school by school decision, and not really relevant to the rule. If no visible play clock, the BJ (at least in our mechanics, but that seems pretty common) will keep the 40, just like he did with the 25.

Handling long incompletes isn't all that different, I bet, either. Wings grab a new football from the ball handler, BJ polices up the old ball. I've seen varsity teams with just 2 footballs, but never just 1.

In Ohio, we will not be using the 40 sec play clock for subvarsity, thankfully.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 11:47am
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JRutledge, I meant a physical play clock.

I know in my area having ball boys that are focused in the game is a big problem.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 11:57am
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Originally Posted by scrounge View Post
Whether they have a visible play clock or not is a school by school decision,
It's a state decision here in California.
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Old Fri Aug 02, 2019, 08:48am
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Originally Posted by wheels View Post
JRutledge, I meant a physical play clock.

I know in my area having ball boys that are focused in the game is a big problem.
There is no mandate for physical play clocks. If a school has one it is because they decided on their own to make that change or addition.

And we are lucky if we have ball boys at all as it is related to other areas. We usually have one ball boy, on one side of the field and is an injured/backup player or a son of a coach. Not ideal at all.

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Old Mon Aug 05, 2019, 09:33am
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It does surprise me a little how some places only use one ball and chase it all over the field. Every team has multiple balls and finding the 14-year old son of a coach doesn't seem to be too big of a problem here. Some teams will also use an injured player or manager.

If you have historically only used one ball it wouldn't be too hard for the state to mandate schools provide at least 2 or 3 as well as a ball boy. They can definitely use this new rule as a reason. When we experimented they made it optional for us to have balls for both teams on both sides. With the exception of a couple weeks that's what we've done the past 3 years. Occasionally we'll have a visiting team request to place an extra ball boy on the home team side (all change of possession come in from the home side for efficiency) and we are fine with that if they are. It hasn't been a problem.

People keep saying this was a solution in search of a problem. If you consistently can't get the ball ready for play in 25 seconds because you are chasing down footballs, then it was more of a problem than I realized.

I don't know if any of the experimental states were ones where only one ball was used by each team. That should never have happened in the first place and can be easily fixed now.
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Old Mon Aug 05, 2019, 10:18am
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Originally Posted by bisonlj View Post
It does surprise me a little how some places only use one ball and chase it all over the field. Every team has multiple balls and finding the 14-year old son of a coach doesn't seem to be too big of a problem here. Some teams will also use an injured player or manager.

If you have historically only used one ball it wouldn't be too hard for the state to mandate schools provide at least 2 or 3 as well as a ball boy. They can definitely use this new rule as a reason. When we experimented they made it optional for us to have balls for both teams on both sides. With the exception of a couple weeks that's what we've done the past 3 years. Occasionally we'll have a visiting team request to place an extra ball boy on the home team side (all change of possession come in from the home side for efficiency) and we are fine with that if they are. It hasn't been a problem.

People keep saying this was a solution in search of a problem. If you consistently can't get the ball ready for play in 25 seconds because you are chasing down footballs, then it was more of a problem than I realized.

I don't know if any of the experimental states were ones where only one ball was used by each team. That should never have happened in the first place and can be easily fixed now.
I said this to you before. The issue is not if we can get the ball in place at 25 seconds, the issue is that there is not a mechanism to make that happen consistently. If the ball is thrown literally to the track or to the fence in a high school field, then it is an issue if we have started the clock as stated and we have no other help to retrieve the ball in a timely manner. Is that every play? Nope. But it happens enough that this was a serious concern at a couple of meetings I attended.

And none of this solves anything if there is no policy in place to solve obvious hole that was never considered. Again, this rule was a solution looking for a problem. There was nothing needed for this rule because it does not make the game better or even go faster. We still have no play clocks at most fields and we still have no policy for having different balls at least in this state. BTW, the only time we have a coach check different balls is when they think they get a "kicking ball." Otherwise, we get one, sometimes two that they bring to us, but again the same issue is at play. It is one kid or their side of the field that often is not paying attention to the game anyway. We cannot get ball boys in college to pay attention, but we are relying on a one ball boy that often does not know to bring the ball in after an obvious change of possession.

We will work with it and it is going to take some penalties for some coaches to have the light bulb go on or the IHSA to realize we have serious holes, but I am just going to laugh until the fallout.

Peace
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Old Mon Aug 05, 2019, 01:41pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I said this to you before. The issue is not if we can get the ball in place at 25 seconds, the issue is that there is not a mechanism to make that happen consistently. If the ball is thrown literally to the track or to the fence in a high school field, then it is an issue if we have started the clock as stated and we have no other help to retrieve the ball in a timely manner. Is that every play? Nope. But it happens enough that this was a serious concern at a couple of meetings I attended.

And none of this solves anything if there is no policy in place to solve obvious hole that was never considered. Again, this rule was a solution looking for a problem. There was nothing needed for this rule because it does not make the game better or even go faster. We still have no play clocks at most fields and we still have no policy for having different balls at least in this state. BTW, the only time we have a coach check different balls is when they think they get a "kicking ball." Otherwise, we get one, sometimes two that they bring to us, but again the same issue is at play. It is one kid or their side of the field that often is not paying attention to the game anyway. We cannot get ball boys in college to pay attention, but we are relying on a one ball boy that often does not know to bring the ball in after an obvious change of possession.

We will work with it and it is going to take some penalties for some coaches to have the light bulb go on or the IHSA to realize we have serious holes, but I am just going to laugh until the fallout.

Peace
I am anxious to hear about your implementation. I have several officiating friends in your area so I'll see if their experiences are similar to yours. I would imagine they will be.

I guarantee each of your teams have multiple balls they can check. They choose not to or have never been asked to. I think that's fairly rare around the country but these forums have proven it's more common than I would have expected. Our poorest inner city schools have at least 2 or 3 balls. They may not be great footballs, but they have multiple and have no problem checking them.

I wish you the best of luck!
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Old Tue Aug 06, 2019, 06:39am
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Perhaps one solution to your problem, Rut, would be to have your BJ hold off starting the 40 for an extra second or three when the ball has to be retrieved. I doubt anyone would be the wiser.
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Old Tue Aug 06, 2019, 09:36am
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Perhaps one solution to your problem, Rut, would be to have your BJ hold off starting the 40 for an extra second or three when the ball has to be retrieved. I doubt anyone would be the wiser.
Already discussed that part, but that is not the issue in the long run.

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Old Tue Aug 06, 2019, 04:22pm
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I would hope that teams and officials would use the scrimmages to have a live practice. I would also hope that the Line Judges for 4 men crews and BJ in 5 men crews have the ready Ref timers!!!
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Old Wed Aug 07, 2019, 05:45am
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Originally Posted by bisonlj View Post
I am anxious to hear about your implementation. I have several officiating friends in your area so I'll see if their experiences are similar to yours. I would imagine they will be.

I guarantee each of your teams have multiple balls they can check. They choose not to or have never been asked to. I think that's fairly rare around the country but these forums have proven it's more common than I would have expected. Our poorest inner city schools have at least 2 or 3 balls. They may not be great footballs, but they have multiple and have no problem checking them.

I wish you the best of luck!
I'm not worried about this rule. I will be fine with what we do because what we have will be based on what the schools provide or what they accept. Just like when I was a baseball umpire, we had only so many balls the schools would provide, so we dealt with their limitations. And in many cases, the schools would complain about how many balls they had, but they choose to provide only a small amount of baseballs that were actually needed.

Providing balls is not going to be the issue. They could provide 10 balls per team, but what are you going to do when you have no system in place to figure out when to bring in the next ball? If you only keep your footballs on your side of the field and you have no system to chase the ball, that is going to be the rub. You could have all your footballs sitting on your opponent's sideline at some point and no ball boy system to make this run easier. This to me is like having a shot clock in basketball, but you do not put the shot clock on the basket, but it is on a stopwatch. You have caused issues that you would not have had normally. And what you will find is that there will be no one size fits all situation. I have already had this conversation with a couple of assignors and they have to try to convince their schools to do simple things that we do automatically at the college level. It is just going to be funny when the season starts.

Also, most scrimmages here will not be with an actual clock or an actual game-like situation. Scrimmages here are often run by the schools that decide they will run plays at their pace or how they wish to run. Scrimmages will not be a place things will be ironed out on this front. Week 1 will be the actual testing ground.

Peace
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Old Fri Aug 09, 2019, 03:10pm
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In terms of mechanics, are you just counting down the last 5 seconds or do you have your hand up at 10 secs then count down the last 5 seconds?
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Old Fri Aug 09, 2019, 03:30pm
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In terms of mechanics, are you just counting down the last 5 seconds or do you have your hand up at 10 secs then count down the last 5 seconds?
We do the same as we did before without a clock. We count down the last 5 seconds.

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