Questioning Partner's Call

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

And now the condescension begins. I gave my thanks to those who were respectful. To people like you who think I should just accept it without being challenged… you're no worse that the hard head people who can't take criticism.

For shame.

I do not think it is condescending to point out you asked for our advice here and you seem not not be willing to accept that advice. If you have it figured out already, then maybe you should have never posted the situation. Otherwise this is on you for posting this in the first place. But the situation sounds really bad on both fronts with what you did on the court and even what the email said in your direction. Both of you should have been adults about it and been more professional IMO. This would have been a better conversation after the game and in person. And the conversation should have gone something like this.

You: What did you see on that back court play?

Partner: I saw a player in the control in the FC by the player having possession of the ball.

You: Well it looked like to me he did not have control.

Partner: I saw the entire thing and he had control by.............and that is why I made the call.

Partner: OK, that is all I wanted to know.

If that was the conversation, you might have had a better interaction. But now you are trying to defend your actions and act as if he had no right to be upset with you. And that does not mean he was right either. It just means that he was put off by your actions and there was a better way to handle this and not stinking as much as both of you did.

Peace

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think it is condescending to point out you asked for our advice here and you seem not not be willing to accept that advice. If you have it figured out already, then maybe you should have never posted the situation. Otherwise this is on you for posting this in the first place. But the situation sounds really bad on both fronts with what you did on the court and even what the email said in your direction. Both of you should have been adults about it and been more professional IMO. This would have been a better conversation after the game and in person. And the conversation should have gone something like this.

You: What did you see on that back court play?

Partner: I saw a player in the control in the FC by the player having possession of the ball.

You: Well it looked like to me he did not have control.

Partner: I saw the entire thing and he had control by.............and that is why I made the call.

Partner: OK, that is all I wanted to know.

If that was the conversation, you might have had a better interaction. But now you are trying to defend your actions and act as if he had no right to be upset with you. And that does not mean he was right either. It just means that he was put off by your actions and there was a better way to handle this and not stinking as much as both of you did.

Peace

JRutledge, I don't know what to say to you now. I explicitly stated that I accepted your particular advice and stated my appreciation for it. Asking for advice does not mean that I must then accept everything. And since this is a forum after all, I would have thought you all would have understood that by now that it is a place of discussion.

Secondly, as I have mentioned many many times in this thread, I apologized to the official for making him feel uncomfortable and I told him in my email that I will consider his feelings now that he doesn't like to be approached.

So this statement where you say this…

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But now you are trying to defend your actions and act as if he had no right to be upset with you.

… is absolutely false, as I apologized to him during the game, and in his emails I distinguished the rules from his personal preference in that I will leave him alone during the games now that I know that he's uncomfortable in having me approach him.

How are you from all of that reading that I'm defending my actions? Honestly, this is getting ridiculous.


I will appreciate advice if the people giving it are not being disingenuous and making stuff up to fit their own view of things. Is that too much to ask?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

How are you from all of that reading that I'm defending my actions? Honestly, this is getting ridiculous.

Well you keep saying you apologized to him as if that made everything else right that you did before. That is my point to you. You were given advice as to what happened and instead of just saying "OK I can see that" or "Now I understand that point of view" you want to debate what you did as if he had no right to be upset with your initial questioning. And I said both of you handled this wrong in the long run. He could have responded initially better to you and not been as confrontational for sure. This was not all on you if you have been paying attention. Your actions just initiated the confrontation.

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

I will appreciate advice if the people giving it are not being disingenuous and making stuff up to fit their own view of things. Is that too much to ask?

I do not need to say anything to fit a point of view. You seem to already know what was best, so why come here and ask at all? If you have it figured out, then do you. Once again you came here with this situation, not me.

Peace

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well you keep saying you apologized to him as if that made everything else right that you did before. That is my point to you. You were given advice as to what happened and instead of just saying "OK I can see that" or "Now I understand that point of view" you want to debate what you did as if he had no right to be upset with your initial questioning. And I said both of you handled this wrong in the long run. He could have responded initially better to you and not been as confrontational for sure. This was not all on you if you have been paying attention. Your actions just initiated the confrontation.



I do not need to say anything to fit a point of view. You seem to already know what was best, so why come here and ask at all? If you have it figured out, then do you. Once again you came here with this situation, not me.

Peace

OK I'm sorry if I misunderstood your posts. Thanks for clarifying.

Though I do not want this to mean that approaching my partner is the wrong thing to do. The way I did it to this particular partner was probably not the best way to do it, as I said before. I will reevaluate it and reconsider how I approach my partners from now on.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You: What did you see on that back court play?

Partner: I saw a player in the control in the FC by the player having possession of the ball.

This is a far as I would have gone, with the addition of:

You: Nice call.

He didn't kick a rule, he made a judgment call and he was the primary and closer to the play than me, so that's all I'm saying to him on this particular play. Now, if he kicked the rule by confusing a throwin exception, for example, then I might spend a few more seconds discussing the play with him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This is a far as I would have gone, with the addition of:

You: Nice call.

He didn't kick a rule, he made a judgment call and he was the primary and closer to the play than me, so that's all I'm saying to him on this particular play. Now, if he kicked the rule by confusing a throwin exception, for example, then I might spend a few more seconds discussing the play with him.

I would have a much more detailed conversation in the locker room about a play that a coach brought to my attention. And I did not get the opportunity during the time on the floor. So saying "Nice call" does not get to the point of us learning or teaching from the situation, especially when you are dealing with a younger official. Even if I had a tough call I would ask my partners if they saw something I missed or they had a different angle.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... learning or teaching from the situation ... saw something I missed ... had a different angle.

He makes it quite clear what he saw.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Partner: I saw a player in the control in the FC by the player having possession of the ball.

I think that it's got all the requirements of a backcourt violation. Two important things can get screwed up with this situation. Knowing the exception for the throwin, and knowing when player control takes place in the front court. He got them both right, using the proper "rule" language. Why discuss it further? Play on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

He makes it quite clear what he saw.



I think that it's got all the requirements of a backcourt violation. Two important things can get screwed up with this situation. Knowing the exception for the throwin, and knowing when player control takes place in the front court. He got them both right, using the proper "rule" language. Why discuss it further? Play on.

I am really not talking about just discussions of this specific play. If you were paying attention I said that if there was a real question that would be a conversation in the locker room either at halftime or after the game (maybe at the bar), but not on the floor. Partners I work with typically embrace speaking about plays and situations we dealt with in the game. And often asking about situations we did not see or did not have direct knowledge of as it was not in our primary or something a coach commented to us about. Almost never a big deal and almost never anyone gets upset by these discussions. Again, this is how we get better or know what actually happen.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you were paying attention I said that if there was a real question that would be a conversation in the locker room either at halftime or after the game ...

...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... bring it up at halftime, or after the game ...