Questioning my T

[fiasco]

Girls JV game last night. Visiting team only has 7 players, and they are obviously overmatched from the get-go.

It's also pretty obvious that the V coach is wanting to rely on us to keep the game close. He is chirpy all game, and my partner and I give him each a warning in the first half.

With under 30 seconds in the first half, I call a foul and as I'm reporting to the table, he is sitting down and kicks the bleacher with the back of his foot as hard as he can. I probably should have dinged him right then as we had already both warned him, but I didn't. I told him, "Coach, that's your final warning." He told me, "No, I can do that because I'm frustrated with my girls, not at your foul calls."

Yeah, right, but I didn't say anything. I was suffering from a misplaced sense of sympathy for his girls, who didn't even have an assistant coach to rely on if this clown got tossed. Shouldn't have been thinking that way, but I was nonetheless.

Third quarter, his girls are actually starting to make a comeback. This is girls JV basketball, so we're not calling every single handcheck, but we've called a few. One on particular play, the defender rides one of this coach's girls from the top of the three point line to the baseline with her forearm in her side. It was not in my area, and my partner chose to pass on it. As she reached the baseline, she traveled, and my partner got it. (she traveled because of her momentum, not the handcheck, BTW).

Coach is visibly upset and calls a timeout just to give it to us. His voice is definitely raised, but he's not saying anything out of line. He tells us that he knows there is handchecking going on out there, and we're choosing to ignore it. He's partially right, and I really do take his comments to heart as he's talking to us.

But, as he walks away, he yells loud enough for at least the first 6 or 7 rows to hear "SO DO YOUR JOB!!!"

I whacked him.

What do you think?

[tjones1]

I don't have a problem with it; however, I would have done it earlier. I only give one warning and then if it comes to it then it's whacking time.

Edit: By "I", I mean our crew only gives one warning.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by fiasco

It's also pretty obvious that the V coach is wanting to rely on us to keep the game close. He is chirpy all game, and my partner and I give him each a warning in the first half.

Coach is visibly upset

Are these two different people? I'm guessing the V coach is the assistant in the JV game?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Are these two different people? I'm guessing the V coach is the assistant in the JV game?

Sorry. V stands for visitor in this case, not varsity.

[chartrusepengui]

I would have whacked earlier. My partner and I don't each give a warning. When one of us has given a warning the other is informed. We have a signal. No second warning. But - in this case I would have definately whacked on the kick. I've coached girls MS, JV and Varsity - so I can understand the frustration. However, being frustrated is not an excuse to display unsporting conduct and kicking the bleacher is unsporting conduct.

[tomegun]

You and your partner warned him and then you gave him a "final warning." By my count that is two too many warnings. I would also suggest the practice of not allowing a coach to take a time out just to talk to you. Finally, how do you know that "defender rides one of this coach's girls from the top of the three point line to the baseline with her forearm in her side" and it wasn't in your area?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tomegun

You and your partner warned him and then you gave him a "final warning." By my count that is two too many warnings. I would also suggest the practice of not allowing a coach to take a time out just to talk to you.

So how would you handle it? He called a timeout and it was obvious he wanted to talk to us, so next time do I just say no and walk away and ignore him?

Finally, how do you know that "defender rides one of this coach's girls from the top of the three point line to the baseline with her forearm in her side" and it wasn't in your area?

That's what my partner told me after the game.

[Smitty]

I think it's too easy to say "I would have T'd earlier". In sub-varsity games - especially when one team is heavily overmatched, some of us do sway the advantage/disadvantage line pretty far to one side or another. That can get us into a situation like the OP. I think you gave as much leeway as you could and ultimately the coach gave you no choice. Did it help the game? Probably not, but sometimes you just have to take care of business. I'm not sure a T at any time in that kind of a game helps the game, but sometimes they just give you no other choice.

[26 Year Gap]

Knowing when the ABS limit is reached is helpful. And usually that limit is reached sooner rather than later. If you warn the guy, then tell your partner and vice versa. How fair is it to the other coach who is abiding by the rules to let this guy get warning after warning? You will only regret the Ts you did not issue or the ones that you did not issue soon enough.

[fiasco]

I think the frustrating thing for me is I hate the perception that I am gunning for a coach. When you have a coach like this guy, it's almost impossible to get away from that perception.

Either you let him ride you like a donkey all night (which I'm not willing to do) or you look (to any casual observer of the game) like you're out to get him.

I realize we're not supposed to care "how it looks," but I'm still new and trying to get this perception out of the back of my mind, especially when I whack him and I'm getting multiple people from the stands screaming "That's why you're still reffing JV ball!!!"

I know I shouldn't let it affect me, but some nights, it just does.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I think it's too easy to say "I would have T'd earlier". In sub-varsity games - especially when one team is heavily overmatched, some of us do sway the advantage/disadvantage line pretty far to one side or another. That can get us into a situation like the OP. I think you gave as much leeway as you could and ultimately the coach gave you no choice. Did it help the game? Probably not, but sometimes you just have to take care of business. I'm not sure a T at any time in that kind of a game helps the game, but sometimes they just give you no other choice.

I agree that some of us do sway the advantage/disadvantage line in games like these - and shouldn't. But that said, if a T shuts him up - or stops his whining it helps the game. Even better if he uses his time to actually coach or inspire his players. When opponent is beating you up, it's easy for players to get down on themselves and even a comment like, "nice pass" can help. Bit@%ing at the officials isn't going to help anything and will allow players think that it is ok to do. Wrong message - even if officials were overcompensating.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by tomegun

You and your partner warned him and then you gave him a "final warning." By my count that is two too many warnings.

+1

IMHO, when you warn a coach (at any level, under any rules) 1 is all they get. After that we need to "Take care of business" and assess the appropriate penalties to put a stop to the inappropriate behaviour.

Question for the OP - In retrospect, do you believe a Technical Foul assessed earlier in the game would of prevented the coach's escalation in inappropriate behaviour/comments?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

Question for the OP - In retrospect, do you believe a Technical Foul assessed earlier in the game would of prevented the coach's escalation in inappropriate behaviour/comments?

Perhaps. He didn't really say much the rest of the game after I whacked him, so probably. The bench-kicking probably should have been the T, not the time out and subsequent yelling.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

He told me, "No, I can do that because I'm frustrated with my girls, not at your foul calls."

If this was the only item, you could address it by saying something like, "I understand, but you still need to express it appropriately."

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Girls JV game last night. Visiting team only has 7 players, and they are obviously overmatched from the get-go.

It's also pretty obvious that the V coach is wanting to rely on us to keep the game close. He is chirpy all game, and my partner and I give him each a warning in the first half.

One warning is all he gets. If you give him a warning and then don't whack him the next time he overreacts, its on you. You have forfeited your authority and credibility.

Originally Posted by fiasco

With under 30 seconds in the first half, I call a foul and as I'm reporting to the table, he is sitting down and kicks the bleacher with the back of his foot as hard as he can. I probably should have dinged him right then as we had already both warned him, but I didn't. I told him, "Coach, that's your final warning." He told me, "No, I can do that because I'm frustrated with my girls, not at your foul calls."

WHACK!!!! Sorry. If you don't whack that, it doesn't matter what he intended, the perception to the other coaches/players and fans is you are getting shown up.

Originally Posted by fiasco

Yeah, right, but I didn't say anything. I was suffering from a misplaced sense of sympathy for his girls, who didn't even have an assistant coach to rely on if this clown got tossed. Shouldn't have been thinking that way, but I was nonetheless.

Third quarter, his girls are actually starting to make a comeback. This is girls JV basketball, so we're not calling every single handcheck, but we've called a few. One on particular play, the defender rides one of this coach's girls from the top of the three point line to the baseline with her forearm in her side. It was not in my area, and my partner chose to pass on it. As she reached the baseline, she traveled, and my partner got it. (she traveled because of her momentum, not the handcheck, BTW).

Coach is visibly upset and calls a timeout just to give it to us. His voice is definitely raised, but he's not saying anything out of line. He tells us that he knows there is handchecking going on out there, and we're choosing to ignore it. He's partially right, and I really do take his comments to heart as he's talking to us.

But, as he walks away, he yells loud enough for at least the first 6 or 7 rows to hear "SO DO YOUR JOB!!!"

I whacked him.

What do you think?

This one was avoidable. had you whacked him earlier, this one would've probably never happened.