Questioning Partner's Call

[MD Longhorn]

To reffish's post, I would add that continued treatment of your fellow officials in the manner you seem to think is completely appropriate (even in the face of almost everyone else here, many of whom have FAR more experience than you, telling you repeatedly that you're wrong) is most likely going to generate a bunch of gunshy officials afraid to make any calls at all for fear of you rushing in to correct them. Not healthy.

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

To reffish's post, I would add that continued treatment of your fellow officials in the manner you seem to think is completely appropriate (even in the face of almost everyone else here, many of whom have FAR more experience than you, telling you repeatedly that you're wrong) is most likely going to generate a bunch of gunshy officials afraid to make any calls at all for fear of you rushing in to correct them. Not healthy.

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I did not "repeatedly" tell him he was wrong. I just went up to him on one call and asked whether the player controlled the ball before going into the backcourt.

And who are you to deem what is healthy now? I love it when I go to a camp and get feedback from multiple officials. I love it when officials come to my games and come into the locker room and call me on calls I kick. I love it when my partner talks to me during the game and either comes up to me to save an obvious call or tells me honest feedback as we're working the game.

These type of posts are more condescending that what you're making me to be as you're imposing a belief on how officiating is supposed to be. No, you're absolutely wrong. And I hope you're man enough to accept this.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I did not "repeatedly" tell him he was wrong.

Nor did I say such a thing. Reading is fundamental.

And with that I'm done.

[OKREF]

Could you please tell me why any lead would be in the C position, while working two man mechanics? This seems that you didn't trust your partner to be able to officiate his area. I would probably be upset also. Once again, while your watching the inbounds play at half court, who is watching your primary?

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Nor did I say such a thing. Reading is fundamental.

And with that I'm done.

Exactly, which is why none of your posts answered the central question of the thread.

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

It seems to me that you guys are all focusing on this specific play way too much

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

shared this to you all in this thread so that I could go through it step by step and see where my particular mistake was.

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

Again, unfortunately, we couldn't step beyond the play and discuss on principle where and when we're supposed to confer on a call as a crew.

Afro, you wrote several times that posters here were focusing on the play itself, whereas you were interested in how to deal with your partner. I understand that.

However, the first 18 posts of this thread (not counting yours) are focused on how you should have dealt with your partner. The posters here told you what they thought, and then moved on to examining the play itself. It's kinda like a reverse hierarchy -- once the "big" questions are answered posters move on to the "small" stuff -- like debating the specifics of the play that caused your situation in the first place, or the "nitty gritty" as you mentioned here:

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

the nitty gritty stuff that will forever remain ambiguous and could be argued over for days.

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

So let me be real specific in regards to the play just to entertain this discussion, which really isn't the main point of the this read. And then I'll address each of the individual points thereafter.

I have learned that the more you write about the play, the more opportunity there is for someone here to criticize you. Why? It's the nature of clarity -- the more words we write (after a certain point), the less clear we become. Officiating, and the call your partner made, is based on judgement. And if you open up discussion of the play by detailing everything that took place, you are going to receive criticism of your judgement and rules knowledge.

If you wanted to focus on the man-management aspect of your situation, I think it was a mistake to flesh out the specifics of the original play.

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I did not "repeatedly" tell him he was wrong.

Read what MD Longhorn wrote again. He was saying "members of this forum were repeatedly saying you were wrong" about how you were approaching other officials. The "repeatedly [telling] him he was wrong" did not refer to how you approached your partner in the OP.

[Afrosheen]

Yes, AremRed, I see now with your post how this blew up and I flamed the fire. I guess I got too used to talking with the officials I usually work with and thought the same mindset would be seen here.

I apologize to everyone here for misleading you. I appreciate the feedback even though I may not have agreed with all of it. I thought that we could have a civil discussion without making it personal, but that again was my fault for expressing that faith in complete strangers on an internet forum.

No problem Afrosheen. I have fanned the fire on a couple threads that got off the topic I wanted to talk about. I sincerely hope you stick around here and engage in more discussion, it just takes a little while to understand the culture here.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

Yes, AremRed, I see now with your post how this blew up and I flamed the fire. I guess I got too used to talking with the officials I usually work with and thought the same mindset would be seen here.

I apologize to everyone here for misleading you. I appreciate the feedback even though I may not have agreed with all of it. I thought that we could have a civil discussion without making it personal, but that again was my fault for expressing that faith in complete strangers on an internet forum.

No harm, no foul. I apologize if you think I was being personal.

One thing I've definitely found here --- I learn more posting here than discussing in groups at clinics or between games and the like. Why? Because when you're discussing things in your own circle, people are more likely to just go with the flow, and less likely to say something that might ruffle a feather (perhaps moreso in your case since you have authority over them! How many officials who rely on you to schedule would be willing to say, "Hey boss, you kind of stepped on your partner there"? Likely none of them, even if they ALL thought it.). Here, people will give you the honest truth, an honest opinion of your actions. Take it for what it's worth - there are a lot of very very good, very very smart officials here. And don't assume all criticism is personal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

You're assuming a little too much with that last sentence. But regardless, I appreciate you're willingness to consider the entirety of my original post.

I agree with you that marginal stuff should not be questioned and that they're supposed to be stuff that should discussed during the half in closed quarters if at all, which is what I do.

But let me ask you, should the referees in Tom Izzo's game not have gone up to their partner on such a missed call? I don't consider that call to be marginal as it a complete kick of the rule.

My assumption is based on experience. Our response as partners can lead to a lot of trouble. If a caoch is already on edge about a call, and you start walking towards the calling official, he's going to assume you saw it his way and try to encourgage you to overturn the call or "talk to" your partner.

I have to say, from what I've read, you seem to have been pretty focussed on the division line when you were at the lead position. I just can't imagine even looking up there on that play unless I didn't trust my partner at all.

I don't recall the play you're talking about with Izzo.