Let's play the T-Worthy Game

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Ok I got a new one for ya:

"Call the damn foul!"

Okay, no one is going to bite on this, so I'll take it.

This one's an automatic T for me, happened last night.

Visiting coach hasn't said a peep all night. Not one thing to me or my partner other than to request a time out. Then with 1 minute left in the game, and his team down only by 4 points, there's a little scrum in front of his bench. Ball is loose, incidental contact, I have nothing. He says something about his player being put at a disadvantage, I ignore the comment. Then comes "Call the damn foul!"

Whack!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Okay, no one is going to bite on this, so I'll take it.

This one's an automatic T for me, happened last night.

Visiting coach hasn't said a peep all night. Not one thing to me or my partner other than to request a time out. Then with 1 minute left in the game, and his team down only by 4 points, there's a little scrum in front of his bench. Ball is loose, incidental contact, I have nothing. He says something about his player being put at a disadvantage, I ignore the comment. Then comes "Call the damn foul!"

Whack!

Options:

1) Ignore
2) Address: "When there is a foul, I'll get it"
2) Address: "I saw xxxxx."


For me, a T is way down the list of options on this statement, especially in the situation you mentioned (nothing out of the coach until now).

The statement is a heavy straw to add to the camel's back, though.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Options:

1) Ignore
2) Address: "When there is a foul, I'll get it"
2) Address: "I saw xxxxx."


For me, a T is way down the list of options on this statement, especially in the situation you mentioned (nothing out of the coach until now).

The statement is a heavy straw to add to the camel's back, though.

Hm...here's where we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I consider profanity directed at an official in this manner an automatic T. Unsportsmanlike in HS.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Options:

1) Ignore
2) Address: "When there is a foul, I'll get it"
2) Address: "I saw xxxxx."


For me, a T is way down the list of options on this statement, especially in the situation you mentioned (nothing out of the coach until now).

The statement is a heavy straw to add to the camel's back, though.

Me too. D@mn is an adjective for foul, not something directed at me, the official. Besides, that word (and few words) really bother me. It's the actions that go with the words that get the response.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Besides, that word (and few words) really bother me. It's the actions that go with the words that get the response.

It has nothing to do with whether something bothers me or not. It has to do with what is sportsmanlike or not. Personally, I consider it blatantly unsportsmanlike for a coach (or player) to use a profanity directed at a high school official. I think it sends a bad message to the kids, especially.

If you disagree, that's fine, but the bottom line is that we shouldn't be handing out Ts based on our feelings.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by fiasco

It has nothing to do with whether something bothers me or not. It has to do with what is sportsmanlike or not. Personally, I consider it blatantly unsportsmanlike for a coach (or player) to use a profanity directed at a high school official. I think it sends a bad message to the kids, especially.

If you disagree, that's fine, but the bottom line is that we shouldn't be handing out Ts based on our feelings.

+1

I was taught to respect authority figures. "Call the damn foul" is nothing but disrespect (10-4-1a, which came into play after Naismith did his thing in 1891). I don't see any gray area here at all.

Bob, "Let 'em Play" is more likely to get a stern look and "not again" from me than a T. Certainly Roman and Level Law applies. As for Carlin, I'm very familiar with his "idiots and maniacs" bit for driving, didn't know if it applies to anything else.

(I sense a YouTube link forthcoming.)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

+1

I was taught to respect authority figures. "Call the damn foul" is nothing but disrespect (10-4-1a, which came into play after Naismith did his thing in 1891). I don't see any gray area here at all.

Bob, "Let 'em Play" is more likely to get a stern look and "not again" from me than a T. Certainly Roman and Level Law applies. As for Carlin, I'm very familiar with his "idiots and maniacs" bit for driving, didn't know if it applies to anything else.

(I sense a YouTube link forthcoming.)

A stern look for "let em play"? Really?

You know, part of the coach's job is to be an advocate for his team. Sounds to me like you and a few others here are a bit sensitive. And this is coming from an official who's handed out his share of technical fouls over the last 25 years.

Unsportsmanlike behavior doesn't need to be stomped on the first time it happens, either. It's OK to ignore something you feel is toe-ing the line the first time. Even the mildest mannered coaches will say something that's out of character once and if it's not loud enough for everyone to be taken aback by it, how does it help the game to jump all over it?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Sounds to me like you and a few others here are a bit sensitive.

See there you go again, thinking it has anything to do with being sensitive. When the coach said that to me, I didn't have my pwetty wittle feewings huwt. I considered it an unsportsmanlike act, and penalized accordingly.

I love the fact that, when someone doesn't agree with someone's T around here, they automatically get labeled as "sensitive."

How about we start labeling those who don't give out Ts as doormats.

Sounds to me like you're just a doormat.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fiasco

It has nothing to do with whether something bothers me or not. It has to do with what is sportsmanlike or not. Personally, I consider it blatantly unsportsmanlike for a coach (or player) to use a profanity directed at a high school official. I think it sends a bad message to the kids, especially.

If you disagree, that's fine, but the bottom line is that we shouldn't be handing out Ts based on our feelings.

This is after you say, "Personally, I consider it" which is the same thing as saying, "I feel..."

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is after you say, "Personally, I consider it" which is the same thing as saying, "I feel..."

By all means, keep letting coaches curse at you in front of their kids. More power to you.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Okay, no one is going to bite on this, so I'll take it.

This one's an automatic T for me, happened last night.

Visiting coach hasn't said a peep all night. Not one thing to me or my partner other than to request a time out. Then with 1 minute left in the game, and his team down only by 4 points, there's a little scrum in front of his bench. Ball is loose, incidental contact, I have nothing. He says something about his player being put at a disadvantage, I ignore the comment. Then comes "Call the damn foul!"

Whack!

Actually, I touched on this one earlier, fiasco, and I completely agree with you.

Aside to Bob & Rich: Even if you took out the word "damn," you still have an imperative sentence. Since when is that tolerable?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Aside to Bob & Rich: Even if you took out the word "damn," you still have an imperative sentence. Since when is that tolerable?

Since 1865 (or whenver Naismith wrote the first rules).

You're going to T for "Let 'em play" when a coach thinks you're calling it too tight(ly)?

It's both a "when in Rome" thing, a "level of play" thing, and a George Carlin "idiots and maniacs" (or whatever he used) thing.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Actually, I touched on this one earlier, fiasco, and I completely agree with you.

Aside to Bob & Rich: Even if you took out the word "damn," you still have an imperative sentence. Since when is that tolerable?

It's a big fat ignore for me. Answer questions, ignore statements. He says "Call the damned foul" and I don't even look in his direction and keep officiating. If he repeated it or continues, I deal with it -- maybe by simply giving him a look or saying, "I heard you the first [N] times."

If it's loud, prolonged, or personal, deal with it. That can include many things and may or may not include a technical foul.

But a technical foul for a head coach is likely not going to come this easily. Not varsity and up anyway.