Let's play the T-Worthy Game

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is after you say, "Personally, I consider it" which is the same thing as saying, "I feel..."

By all means, keep letting coaches curse at you in front of their kids. More power to you.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Sounds to me like you and a few others here are a bit sensitive.

See there you go again, thinking it has anything to do with being sensitive. When the coach said that to me, I didn't have my pwetty wittle feewings huwt. I considered it an unsportsmanlike act, and penalized accordingly.

I love the fact that, when someone doesn't agree with someone's T around here, they automatically get labeled as "sensitive."

How about we start labeling those who don't give out Ts as doormats.

Sounds to me like you're just a doormat.

[tref]

Wow! Doormat?
Because the coach did his job & used the word "damn" while doing so?

Where do you guys live, in Utah?
And do you happen to do any urban ball?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Sounds to me like you're just a doormat.

Fiasco, you had me right along side you until you directed this at Rich. He deserves better respect than that.

Rich, it's not about sensitivity. It's about respect for our roles. I will never claim to have your experience, but I've come to find that ignoring can come across as condoning. If you draw the line, you're more likely to get the desired effect, for you and your partners.

And again, I do not give an official an imperative sentence, period. I very seldom give coaches and players imperative sentences when I'm working ("Coach/#22, I need...."). I expect the same from others. I believe that to be fair.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Fiasco, you had me right along side you until you directed this at Rich. He deserves better respect than that.

If you dig into the context of the post, you'll understand that I'm not actually calling Rich a doormat. Of course I don't think he's a doormat. I'm addressing his absurdity with more absurdity. It's a form of satire.

I find it absurd that he thinks an official who determines that "call the damn foul" is being overly sensitive by calling a T in that situation, as if it has anything to do with an officials sensitivity. It doesn't.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me ask you this, how many Ts are acceptable to you. After all you are the expert on this topic.

I really don't understand the question as there is no context given whatsoever....acceptable in a game? In 10 games? In one quarter? What actions are causing you to call the fouls?

But I will say that there is no correct answer to any of them. You could handle every situation perfectly and go 10 games without a technical foul. Then something comes up, which you also handle perfectly, and you call 10 technical fouls in a quarter.

I know you say that there are no absolutes but that isn't how it should be. Some things such as personal insults ("you suck at officiating basektball") as well as accusing the officials of cheating ("you are making those calls because you are trying to help the other team win") are always a technical foul.

Originally Posted by fiasco

I find it absurd that he thinks an official who determines that "call the damn foul" is being overly sensitive by calling a T in that situation, as if it has anything to do with an officials sensitivity. It doesn't.

Do you call technical fouls if someone yells "damn"? Saying "call the damn foul" really isn't any different.

[Adam]

This is all regional. Some areas, you'll get laughed out for calling a T for "call the damn foul.". Others, you had better make that call. Most, it will depend on context, tone, and location.

[bob jenkins]

Every year (or more often) we have big discussions about whether "damn" (or any other word) is "profanity". I wouldnt even be surprised if some guy from DC and Idaho participated in them. Go ahead and call it. I won't (absent other items) and I'll sleep well.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Go ahead and call it. I won't (absent other items) and I'll sleep well.

I will call it. Difference between me and others, though, is that I won't look down on you (ie, call you insensitive or a doormat) for not calling it.

We all have our own standards when it comes to stuff like this and, IMO, that's okay. (notice about 30 posts ago where I told you we'd just have to agree to disagree on the issue)

[Rich]

I thought of this thread tonight. I was working a boys game at the school that's probably #1 in the state in D4 (small school division) and the score was 48-5 at the half.

Fourth quarter and the losing coach is complaining and finally I slide alongside him during free throws and he goes on and on about the other team being bigger, faster, quicker and us letting them get away with stuff. I let him talk himself out and then we move on. Later I told him we'd heard enough. Frankly, I felt bad they were getting killed, but I didn't need to be the scapegoat.

Next time down the floor, the home team substitutes and the assistants tell them "no fouls, no fouls". And the losing coach loudly says, "It doesn't matter - they won't call them anyway."

It ended 88-12. Kid shooting the technicals hit 1 of 2.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I will call it. Difference between me and others, though, is that I won't look down on you (ie, call you insensitive or a doormat) for not calling it.

We all have our own standards when it comes to stuff like this and, IMO, that's okay. (notice about 30 posts ago where I told you we'd just have to agree to disagree on the issue)

Really? Because I certainly thought you called Rich a doormat in this thread.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really? Because I certainly thought you called Rich a doormat in this thread.

He was using satire in pointing out Rich's presumption that those who would call the T are thin skinned.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I thought of this thread tonight. .

Me, too.

Home team up by about 15 in the 4th. I'm in front of the coach. "You guys have to call more handchecks." "I just had one last time down the court." (true). "Well, yes, but you're not getting any help from your partners out here tonight." "Let's not go there."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

Wow! Doormat?
Because the coach did his job & used the word "damn" while doing so?

Where do you guys live, in Utah?
And do you happen to do any urban ball?

If they did that here and T'd everyone that curse on any level, they would not be working at all. Or not working in the right places. I am not saying is should be tolerated, but it certainly does not need a T every time it is heard either. Just like every coach or player complains about a judgment call that is also a T under the rules.

I gave my first T tonight and it had nothign to do with a curse word. It actually had little to do with on incident. It was a coach that was warned about his behavior directly and then choose to go over the top and got stuck. He hardly said a word the rest of the game. He also knew darn well why he was penalized too.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

I really don't understand the question as there is no context given whatsoever....acceptable in a game? In 10 games? In one quarter? What actions are causing you to call the fouls?

You are the one that suggested that I was being walked all over, so whatever you think should be sufficient. Again, this seems to be a problem for you, not me.

Originally Posted by Cobra

But I will say that there is no correct answer to any of them. You could handle every situation perfectly and go 10 games without a technical foul. Then something comes up, which you also handle perfectly, and you call 10 technical fouls in a quarter.

I agree, which was my point.

Originally Posted by Cobra

I know you say that there are no absolutes but that isn't how it should be. Some things such as personal insults ("you suck at officiating basektball") as well as accusing the officials of cheating ("you are making those calls because you are trying to help the other team win") are always a technical foul.

I am at the point of my career I really do not care what coaches say to me. As long as they are not loud and bombastic and bring attention to themselves, honestly I do not care. If you do that is your issue. Coaches in basketball are some of the most paranoid individuals around. They take every call personally and think everything like the racial makeup of the crew, the conference they are working in or where they "think" the officials are from or live at has something to do with the calls. I live in a very diverse area where all these things can be a factor directly and indirectly. And if I got upset every implication of cheating was said, I would go crazy.

Originally Posted by Cobra

Do you call technical fouls if someone yells "damn"? Saying "call the damn foul" really isn't any different.

I would get laughed at if I called a T for someone saying damn or even some things that are worse.

Like as others have said, this is really a local issue. If everyone gives a T like you do be my guest. If I did that here, I would not work much or get a bad reputation. I know how to handle myself and I see enough of these teams where most of the time I do not even have to say anything, they act right because they know me or others are not going to fall for their crap. I do not need a T to send that message. I know once this was discussed, but I believe the presence I have on the court keeps me out of a lot of these situation you are giving Ts for.

Peace