T-Worthy?

[rfp]

Similar question to a recent post about T-ing a player who, in frustration with himself, slammed the ball hard to the ground. Most seemed to agree this was not T-worthy since it wasn't directed at an opponent or official.

Similar situation: boys HS varsity playoff semi-final. Early in first half player A1 drives to the basket, gets fouled and the ball circles the rim and eventually falls off. By the time the ball falls to the ground, A1 is now in front of me at C position in front of the B bench. When he sees the shot miss, he drops the F-bomb loud enough for me and the B bench to hear. B coach wants a T. Waddya got?

[Adam]

T

[JRutledge]

Was he saying because he missed the shot or because he thought he got fouled?

I still say I would have to be there. I could see passing on this or calling a T depending on the context or other actions.

Also who cares what the coach wants. The coach would go crazy if you called a T on his player for something you could not explain, so I tend to not care what they have to say about any T.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Was he saying because he missed the shot or because he thought he got fouled?

I still say I would have to be there. I could see passing on this or calling a T depending on the context or other actions.

Also who cares what the coach wants. The coach would go crazy if you called a T on his player for something you could not explain, so I tend to not care what they have to say about any T.

Peace

This is likely to be a regional thing, but I have yet to work in an area where an F-bomb loud enough for the opposing bench to hear is anything less than a T. If it can only be heard by me and a couple of his teammates, I'll give him a quick reminder to watch it (I always see the apologetic body language when I do this).

But come on, Jeff, you wouldn't be able to explain this pretty quickly?

"Coach, he dropped an F-bomb that was loud enough I can't ignore it."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But come on, Jeff, you wouldn't be able to explain this pretty quickly?

"Coach, he dropped an F-bomb that was loud enough I can't ignore it."

I did not say I could not explain it, I just want context. Let me put it this way. If I am in one setting if I T'd every kid that used a bad word, I would have 10 Ts a game (and throwing out multiple fans). If I went to another place, the use of that language would be unusual. And I would have no problem saying something to the kid, but giving a T is not always the right thing to do. Again, when the NF wants to put in certain language as a T, then I will follow that. Until then, I have discretion on these things. This would definitely be a "talk to" if I did not give a T.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say I could not explain it, I just want context. Let me put it this way. If I am in one setting if I T'd every kid that used a bad word, I would have 10 Ts a game (and throwing out multiple fans). If I went to another place, the use of that language would be unusual. And I would have no problem saying something to the kid, but giving a T is not always the right thing to do. Again, when the NF wants to put in certain language as a T, then I will follow that. Until then, I have discretion on these things. This would definitely be a "talk to" if I did not give a T.

Peace

Fair enough, but I thought the context was pretty clear in the OP. Player gets fouled. Foul gets called. Player watches ball roll off the rim, then drops the bomb. I'm assuming he's frustrated with the missed shot since he got the foul call. Even with that benefit of the doubt, he gets the T around here. And most coaches would then proceed to sit him for a bit. I understand there are areas you work where a T on that would get laughed at.

But regardless, no where in the OP is any ambiguity that could lead one to say he couldn't explain the call if he made it.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This is likely to be a regional thing, but I have yet to work in an area where an F-bomb loud enough for the opposing bench to hear is anything less than a T. If it can only be heard by me and a couple of his teammates, I'll give him a quick reminder to watch it (I always see the apologetic body language when I do this).

I'm pretty much in this camp. "Coach, he dropped the F-Bomb and that's unsporting."

I too have told a few kids, "Watch your mouth" when an expletive was mumbled under their breath or there was no one around. I'm not gonna be a plumber here. (No offense to our plumber friend. )

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rfp

Early in first half player A1 drives to the basket, gets fouled and the ball circles the rim and eventually falls off. By the time the ball falls to the ground, A1 is now in front of me at C position in front of the B bench. When he sees the shot miss, he drops the F-bomb loud enough for me and the B bench to hear. B coach wants a T. Waddya got?

Automatic no-brainer "T" in my area. And Lord help any of our officials who won't call it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by rfp

Similar question to a recent post about T-ing a player who, in frustration with himself, slammed the ball hard to the ground. Most seemed to agree this was not T-worthy since it wasn't directed at an opponent or official.

Similar situation: boys HS varsity playoff semi-final. Early in first half player A1 drives to the basket, gets fouled and the ball circles the rim and eventually falls off. By the time the ball falls to the ground, A1 is now in front of me at C position in front of the B bench. When he sees the shot miss, he drops the F-bomb loud enough for me and the B bench to hear. B coach wants a T. Waddya got?

T, and an obvious one at that.

[Mark Padgett]

I know this isn't that relevant to HS, but if this happened in our local kids rec league, it's an automatic flagrant technical with ejection. If it came from a coach, it would also include a one game suspension and if it came from a parent, that parent would be ejected and not allowed back into games for the rest of the season.

Harsh? Well, it's been this way for many years and it fits in with our policies regarding sportsmanship.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I still say I would have to be there. I could see passing on this or calling a T depending on the context or other actions.

If it's that loud?

Sorry, but when they can hear it on the sidelines, it's pretty much automatic in every area that I've ever heard of. And I know you don't really believe in POE's either but the FED has been pretty explicit on how they want inappropriate laguage called. From just one of several POE's on it over the last few years:

The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. ....Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse.

I can see using a little discretion if it's not that loud. But if it can be heard in the stands, it's an automatic "T" in high school ball just about everywhere afaik.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rfp

Similar question to a recent post about T-ing a player who, in frustration with himself, slammed the ball hard to the ground. Most seemed to agree this was not T-worthy since it wasn't directed at an opponent or official.

Similar situation: boys HS varsity playoff semi-final. Early in first half player A1 drives to the basket, gets fouled and the ball circles the rim and eventually falls off. By the time the ball falls to the ground, A1 is now in front of me at C position in front of the B bench. When he sees the shot miss, he drops the F-bomb loud enough for me and the B bench to hear. B coach wants a T. Waddya got?

T. No option, that's required by the NCHSAA. That's not basketball.

[26 Year Gap]

I have T'd every single F-bomb I have heard--none have been solo nobody else could hear it. And I have never had a coach 2nd guess me when I said,"F-bomb".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If it's that loud?

Sorry, but when they can hear it on the sidelines, it's pretty much automatic in every area that I've ever heard of. And I know you don't really believe in POE's either but the FED has been pretty explicit on how they want inappropriate laguage called. From just one of several POE's on it over the last few years:

The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. ....Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse.

I can see using a little discretion if it's not that loud. But if it can be heard in the stands, it's an automatic "T" in high school ball just about everywhere afaik.

JR you can quote POEs all day that does not mean that we all will use the same standard or examples as what produces a T. I know kids that call each other things that are inappropriate, but I would never consider those to be something that is an "automatic" T. The POE is created by people that do not have to live in an area and do not understand the cultural, social-economic and social expectations from different areas. I also do not recall in your POE it says the loudness matters. Or what about if a kid blows out their knee and they start cursing (I have seen this one personally), are we T'ing that too?

How about this, is "D@mn" not OK? Better yet, what about "God D@mn?" Is "Sh!t" not OK? Is one player of the same race calling another player on their team a "slur" not OK? Or does it say only "F" bombs are over the top?

I am not telling you to call what you feel or that you are wrong. I am just saying my standard is not the “F-word” and that is so bad but all other words are OK. That is why context to me and loudness does matter, but not the only factor. To me it has got to be louder than the bench hearing it too. Maybe people in the first three or four rows, but not just the bench IMO.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know kids that call each other things that are inappropriate, but I would never consider those to be something that is an "automatic" T. The POE is created by people that do not have to live in an area and do not understand the cultural, social-economic and social expectations from different areas.

If kids hurling f bombs at each other is ok, your social-economic system needs adjustment. We can't change the world, but we can control our little part of it. Call the T.