Here's a weird clock question

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

In the OP, A1 (the thrower) never releases the ball although B1 is holding the ball. Because the ball HAS NOT been released by the thrower, the clock will not start.

In the OP, you are correct. But your blanket assertion that the clock does not start because there is no team control ... that is just wrong. Team control has exactly nothing to do with when the clock properly starts. The clock starts...wait for it...when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court... And merely touching the ball does not create player or team control.

[chseagle]

ART. 3 . . . If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.

In the case of a missed free throw, the clock can be started by an offensive player tapping the ball for a try on the rebound, or a defensive player taps the ball towards another player.

On opening jumps, the clock starts when the ball is tapped by one or both jumpers, unless signaled otherwise.

However as stated in 5-9-1 the timer can start the clock if they do not see the floor official signal start clock/neglects to signal (their discretion on what it means by ball legally touched), unless floor official specifically signals continued time out.

I always wait for the floor official to signal start clock before the clock starts. Rarely have I had to start the clock due to failure to see the start clock signal.

Generally when I see the start clock signal, there is player/team control established except during jump balls & free throw rebounds.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

In the OP, you are correct. But your blanket assertion that the clock does not start because there is no team control ... that is just wrong. Team control has exactly nothing to do with when the clock properly starts. The clock starts...wait for it...when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court... And merely touching the ball does not create player or team control.

[Back In The Saddle]

Jump ball, throw-in, free throw missed, in all cases the clock starts when the ball is legally touched. If the clock doesn't start until team control is established, it was started late.

[Adam]

This, as has been stated, is just wrong.

Originally Posted by chseagle

The clock should never have started as there was no player/team control inbounds.

But is this a retraction?

Originally Posted by chseagle

AI (OOB Player) never released the ball to be inbounds, so the clock would not be started.

(snip)
In the OP, A1 (the thrower) never releases the ball although B1 is holding the ball. Because the ball HAS NOT been released by the thrower, the clock will not start.

then there's this:

Originally Posted by chseagle

ART. 3 . . . If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.

In the case of a missed free throw, the clock can be started by an offensive player tapping the ball for a try on the rebound, or a defensive player taps the ball towards another player.

On opening jumps, the clock starts when the ball is tapped by one or both jumpers, unless signaled otherwise.

However as stated in 5-9-1 the timer can start the clock if they do not see the floor official signal start clock/neglects to signal (their discretion on what it means by ball legally touched), unless floor official specifically signals continued time out.

I always wait for the floor official to signal start clock before the clock starts. Rarely have I had to start the clock due to failure to see the start clock signal.

Generally when I see the start clock signal, there is player/team control established except during jump balls & free throw rebounds.

Key word here is "generally." Don't base your understanding of the rules on what you generally see happen. Quite a few times each game you'll see a throw-in pass tipped before it is controlled.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Key word here is "generally." Don't base your understanding of the rules on what you generally see happen. Quite a few times each game you'll see a throw-in pass tipped before it is controlled.

In other words, I was meaning most of the time.

As has been mentioned several times, the timer is not right there in front of/next to the play, so the timer has to rely on the floor official to signal when to start/stop the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

In other words, I was meaning most of the time.

As has been mentioned several times, the timer is not right there in front of/next to the play, so the timer has to rely on the floor official to signal when to start/stop the clock.

So it's a retraction from your first statement. Understood.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

However as stated in 5-9-1 the timer can start the clock if they do not see the floor official signal start clock/neglects to signal (their discretion on what it means by ball legally touched), unless floor official specifically signals continued time out.

I find the thought of eagle using his discretion to be somewhat troubling.