NCAA question

[7IronRef]

I am new to the site and new to college officiating.

Looking for input on the following situation, it is a casebook play (A.R.77)

Bonus is in effect; and while the ball is in flight during a try for goal, A1 charges into B1, which is Team A's 7th foul in the half. Then, there is BI by

1) B2 or ...

I am only interested in part 1) of the ruling

It seems to me that since the foul on A1 occurs after the ball has been released this is no longer a PC foul. The BI by B2 results in 2 points for A. Now, here is where I am unclear: The ruling states that B1 is going to shoot 1 and 1. Is the foul by A1 a team control foul? Or is B1 shooting FT's because there is no team control on the shot, even though A1 is an airborne shooter?

It is my understanding that we wouldn't shoot FT's on rebounding, so how is it that FT's are shot?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

I am new to the site and new to college officiating.

Looking for input on the following situation, it is a casebook play (A.R.77)

Bonus is in effect; and while the ball is in flight during a try for goal, A1 charges into B1, which is Team A's 7th foul in the half. Then, there is BI by

1) B2 or ...

I am only interested in part 1) of the ruling

It seems to me that since the foul on A1 occurs after the ball has been released this is no longer a PC foul. The BI by B2 results in 2 points for A. Now, here is where I am unclear: The ruling states that B1 is going to shoot 1 and 1. Is the foul by A1 a team control foul? Or is B1 shooting FT's because there is no team control on the shot, even though A1 is an airborne shooter?

It is my understanding that we wouldn't shoot FT's on rebounding, so how is it that FT's are shot?

Your question is answered by finding out when team control ends.

My follow up question: why wouldn't you shoot free throws on a rebounding foul if you're in the bonus?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

I am new to the site and new to college officiating.

Looking for input on the following situation, it is a casebook play (A.R.77)

Bonus is in effect; and while the ball is in flight during a try for goal, A1 charges into B1, which is Team A's 7th foul in the half. Then, there is BI by

1) B2 or ...

I am only interested in part 1) of the ruling

It seems to me that since the foul on A1 occurs after the ball has been released this is no longer a PC foul. The BI by B2 results in 2 points for A. Now, here is where I am unclear: The ruling states that B1 is going to shoot 1 and 1. Is the foul by A1 a team control foul? Or is B1 shooting FT's because there is no team control on the shot, even though A1 is an airborne shooter?

It is my understanding that we wouldn't shoot FT's on rebounding, so how is it that FT's are shot?

Is the foul by A1 a team control foul? No. Team control ends on the release of the try.

Or is B1 shooting FT's because there is no team control on the shot, even though A1 is an airborne shooter? Correct. The NCAA Men's side does not consider an airborne shooter to be in player control. The rule is different from NFHS and the NCAA Women's side.

It is my understanding that we wouldn't shoot FT's on rebounding, so how is it that FT's are shot? You are incorrect about not shooting on rebounding. FTs would be awarded for a foul during a rebound as there is no team control. Recall that team control ended with the try for goal and it has not been reestablished yet during the rebounding action.

[Jurassic Referee]

Player and team control ended when the ball left A1's hands on the shot.

NCAA rules are different than NFHS rules in that the airborne shooter(A1) cannot be called for a player control foul after the ball has left his hands, while under NFHS rules A1 can be called for a PC foul until one foot touches the court again after being airborne.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

I am new to the site and new to college officiating.

Looking for input on the following situation, it is a casebook play (A.R.77)

Bonus is in effect; and while the ball is in flight during a try for goal, A1 charges into B1, which is Team A's 7th foul in the half. Then, there is BI by

...

even though A1 is an airborne shooter?

...

JR, Nevada,

Where in the sitch does it indicate an airborne shooter? Since A1 was not fouled, it does not matter in the sitch as the ball has left the shooters hand, correct?
(It also does not say that A1 was not airborne)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Where in the sitch does it indicate an airborne shooter?

It doesn't. But, if A1 had returned to the ground, then the ruling is the same in all codes (B shoots bonus FTs), and the OP (likely) wouldn't be confused.

So, the logical (but not definitive) assumption is that A1 is airborne.

[Tio]

I know it is confusing, but the NCAA diffentiates a Charge vs. Player control foul...

A charge refers to the situation where there is a release and crash. The player control refers to when there is contact before the release.

I was really confused by the plays in the casebook and this terminology. The rules folks should probably look at the word choice and make it clearer.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Tio

I know it is confusing, but the NCAA diffentiates a Charge vs. Player control foul...

It's not confusing, just different. And it's NCAA-M, not all NCAA.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I know it is confusing, but the NCAA diffentiates a Charge vs. Player control foul...

A charge refers to the situation where there is a release and crash. The player control refers to when there is contact before the release.

I was really confused by the plays in the casebook and this terminology. The rules folks should probably look at the word choice and make it clearer.

Originally Posted by mbyron

It's not confusing, just different. And it's NCAA-M, not all NCAA.

To be even more precise, "charges" cover only a portion of PC fouls, and PC fouls only cover a portion of "charging" fouls. The terms "charge" and "player control" are not interchangeable.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To be even more precise, "charges" cover only a portion of PC fouls, and PC fouls only cover a portion of "charging" fouls. The terms "charge" and "player control" are not interchangeable.

No... there is no player control on a release and then a crash. This is what the NCAA men's casebook refers to as a Charge.

It is really confusing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

No... there is no player control on a release and then a crash. This is what the NCAA men's casebook refers to as a Charge.

It is really confusing.

True, but slightly off my point.
A charge does not require player control, it doesn't even require the player ever had the ball or be on offense. Example: A2 sets a screen and B1 plows through it. This is a charging foul.

Some rebounding fouls are also charges.

[Tio]

Has anyone ever heard someone call a player running through a screen a charge? I'm not buying.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

Has anyone ever heard someone call a player running through a screen a charge? I'm not buying.

10-6-1
Signal's the same as push, though, so you'd never know with most officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Tio

Has anyone ever heard someone call a player running through a screen a charge? I'm not buying.

Me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Tio

Has anyone ever heard someone call a player running through a screen a charge? I'm not buying.

Yes, unless you're (mistakenly) equating "charge" with "PC foul"