Unusual and weird situation resulting in ejection

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Good point, but all these thing involve varying degrees of ignoring things that happened. Calling something that didn't happen, imo, is considerably more serious.

Like calling OOB on green when they committed a small foul on white causing white to knock it OOB?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me just say this, in some places, a block on this place is an acceptable way to put a stop to it. Personally, if I were to do it that way, I'd accompany it with a warning to the player letting him know why I called it. Next one is a T.

Working in one of the areas where officials call a block on a flop, I agree with your claim.

That said, I don't like the call. For one thing, with no contact it's just not a personal foul, and block is the wrong call. For another, you might end up punishing the offense if they might have had a shot and the foul interrupts the game.

I use a version of "wave, warn, whack." The first instance, when I see the player on the floor I'll wave "upward" in a "get up!" signal. The purpose is to signal that I saw the whole play and the flopper ain't gonna get that call. Next time, I verbally warn the player and coach. Then whack.

I've found that just signaling that I saw what happened and passed on the "contact" usually sends a message and it doesn't happen again. This serves the same purpose as a warning (ending the behavior) without slowing the game.

If a verbal warning is necessary, I find that including the coach lays the groundwork if I have to give a T.

Some of you might find that this method has one layer of warning too many (or wouldn't bother with the coach). I understand -- the method certainly isn't in the manual -- but my rationale for it is that nobody calls that T around here, and nobody expects it. So if I'm going to call it, everybody in the gym needs to know that it's coming. YMMV.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by representing

You're just a coach, remember that

Aren't you embarrassed that "just a coach" knows more about the rules than a legendary icon like you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The rulebook ain't one of them.

+1

If you call a block instead of the correct call, you're making up your own rules. Flopping, by definition, has no or incidental contact. It's faking being fouled. Blocking is a foul using illegal contact as the criteria. Completely different animals with completely different penalties.

In my experience, the people that advocate calling a block on this situation usually do so because they feel they will get less flak from the coach if they make that call. That's the wrong reason to make any call imo.

My motto is "If I'm gonna make a call, I might as well make the right one."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The concept is similar, as a foul cannot legally be called without contact.

Then how could you advocate calling a block on a flop?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by representing

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

1) How could you possibly consider this a violation?

2) You don't need to wait for a dead ball to call him over and warn him. Use the "get up" motion (similar to "play on" in soccer, I think) and orally tell him "don't flop."

3) What's a "blocking charge?" Why would you do it two times, and then T? How do you answer the question "Why is this play any different from the first 3 plays?"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's my recommendation. If you see any contact, I'd be willing to accept a blocking foul on this.
But I prefer a warning.

Just last week, I had a kid pull this. I was C, and as we were heading the other way I go this attention and told him not to do it again. He pretended he didn't know what I was talking about, but he didn't do it again.

If, after one warning, he does it again, ring him up. It'll stop.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Then how could you advocate calling a block on a flop?

I don't advocate it; but I understand some locales prefer it done this way. I've never called a block on this. I no-call it when the player falls with marginal contact. 88% of the time the coach gets the message without me saying a word, and yells at his player to stay in there. 11% off the time, the coach says nothing. The other 1%, I ignore.

If I worked in a locale who wanted it done with a blocking call, they'd only get one and it would come with a verbal warning to the coach as I reported the foul.

While I don't like the idea of calling a phantom foul here, I'm not going to tell an official to go against the accepted practice in his area; no matter how stoopid I think that practice may be.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

88% of the time the coach gets the message without me saying a word, and yells at his player to stay in there. 11% off the time, the coach says nothing. The other 1%, I ignore.

You could have done this a lot faster if you had used a slide rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You could have done this a lot faster if you had used a slide rule.

Nah, it's much quicker just to make the stats up on the spot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't advocate it; but I understand some locales prefer it done this way.

While I don't like the idea of calling a phantom foul here, I'm not going to tell an official to go against the accepted practice in his area; no matter how stoopid I think that practice may be.

Is it the accepted practice in your area?

I don't think I've heard of any area recommending that their officials call a block instead of a "T" for flopping. The usual practice seems to be "warn & whack" afaik, especially after the POE's that have come out.

But then again, I've led a sheltered life....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Like calling OOB on green when they committed a small foul on white causing white to knock it OOB?

I'm all for this one. However, there is another association near me who reportedly has the policy that as long as the defense knocks it out, there is no foul. Period. Kinda like partially blocking a punt and not drawing a flag. As long as you get a small piece of the ball, you can take as much of the kicker as you want along with it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Is it the accepted practice in your area?

I don't think I've heard of any area recommending that their officials call a block instead of a "T" for flopping. The usual practice seems to be "warn & whack" afaik, especially after the POE's that have come out.

But then again, I've led a sheltered life....

Negative, and I could be wrong about whether it's the accepted practice anywhere. it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong on this board. Won't be the last, either, given how quickly I tend to open my mouth.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nah, it's much quicker just to make the stats up on the spot.

"Bas(k)e(t)ball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical."

[ibOfficial]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While I don't like the idea of calling a phantom foul here, I'm not going to tell an official to go against the accepted practice in his area; no matter how stoopid I think that practice may be.

Let me begin with the cliche: "Everybody makes mistakes; that's why they put erasers on pencils." Then let me follow with another cliche: "Remember that what's right isn't always popular... and what's popular isn't always right." As a young and learning official, I am bombarded by both good insight and bad insight, but all in all, rules need to be upheld. I would hope that an associate of mine would not sit back and allow me to do something that was blatantly wrong. I wonder how this "practice in his area" became "accepted..." I'm pretty sure the rules of basketball are consistent throughout the game. I assume you know this.

Last thing, basketball is 1 contest with 3 teams on the court: The home team, visiting team, and our team. Don't put BS in the game, and don't let your partner.

[Nevadaref]

John W. Adams
National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials, NCAA

Note from the Mens National Coordinator

---

Beginning on Thanksgiving Day and ending late Sunday evening I attended in person and watched all or part of over 20 games. Here are some observations worth sharing with you.

1. I noticed an increase in incorrect blocking calls at or near the basket but NOT in the restricted area. Officials seem to be defaulting to a blocking foul any time there is contact at or near the basket. If the play doesn't involve a secondary defender "under the basket", officiate the play like any basketball play.

2. I witnessed entirely too many "no calls" on illegal contact and crashes at the basket. The #1 Point of Emphasis is Charge/Block/Player Control Fouls at the Basket. When illegal contact occurs we need a whistle on the play. The days of "passing" on these types of plays are behind us.

3. There seems to be an epidemic of "flopping" on both contact in the low post and on drives to the basket. If the "flopper" interferes with the rhythm, speed, balance or quickness of his opponent, call the foul.

...

From Bulletin #2 this season:

1. We are very disappointed with the number of hard contact plays at or near the basket that are going uncalled. One of the three Points of Emphasis this year is charge/block/player control fouls. If illegal contact occurs at or near the basket, you no longer have the option of "passing" on this play. If it is the opinion of the official that the defender "flopped" on the play, that official should use the next opportunity to inform the offending player that if he flops again, the official will call a blocking foul on him. Let's stop motioning to a defender to "get up off the floor". See the play start, develop and finish, and referee the contact.