Unusual and weird situation resulting in ejection

[Adam]

Representing, can you please answer the following question?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A1 goes up for a shot in the lane, and B1 goes up to defend. B1 blocks it cleanly, knocking it out of bounds. C calls a phantom foul. B coach goes ballistic, so the official Ts the coach.

After shooting the shooting all the shots, the C then approaches the L and asks him what he saw. "It was clean, no contact at all."

The C then decides to correct his error (time frame still applies) and retract the original shooting foul. He wipes away the points because they were unmerited.

Do you think he has rules backing for this?

The concept is similar, as a foul cannot legally be called without contact.

BTW, I would be willing to bet a game check that you would get a different answer from the NFHS.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Representing, can you please answer the following question?


The concept is similar, as a foul cannot legally be called without contact.

BTW, I would be willing to bet a game check that you would get a different answer from the NFHS.

Ok Snaqs, point well taken.

And no, he doesn't have any backing on this by the rules as it doesn't fall under any of the 5 correctable errors.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The concept is similar, as a foul cannot legally be called without contact.

Then how could you advocate calling a block on a flop?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's my recommendation. If you see any contact, I'd be willing to accept a blocking foul on this.
But I prefer a warning.

Just last week, I had a kid pull this. I was C, and as we were heading the other way I go this attention and told him not to do it again. He pretended he didn't know what I was talking about, but he didn't do it again.

If, after one warning, he does it again, ring him up. It'll stop.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Then how could you advocate calling a block on a flop?

I don't advocate it; but I understand some locales prefer it done this way. I've never called a block on this. I no-call it when the player falls with marginal contact. 88% of the time the coach gets the message without me saying a word, and yells at his player to stay in there. 11% off the time, the coach says nothing. The other 1%, I ignore.

If I worked in a locale who wanted it done with a blocking call, they'd only get one and it would come with a verbal warning to the coach as I reported the foul.

While I don't like the idea of calling a phantom foul here, I'm not going to tell an official to go against the accepted practice in his area; no matter how stoopid I think that practice may be.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

88% of the time the coach gets the message without me saying a word, and yells at his player to stay in there. 11% off the time, the coach says nothing. The other 1%, I ignore.

You could have done this a lot faster if you had used a slide rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You could have done this a lot faster if you had used a slide rule.

Nah, it's much quicker just to make the stats up on the spot.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nah, it's much quicker just to make the stats up on the spot.

"Bas(k)e(t)ball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't advocate it; but I understand some locales prefer it done this way.

While I don't like the idea of calling a phantom foul here, I'm not going to tell an official to go against the accepted practice in his area; no matter how stoopid I think that practice may be.

Is it the accepted practice in your area?

I don't think I've heard of any area recommending that their officials call a block instead of a "T" for flopping. The usual practice seems to be "warn & whack" afaik, especially after the POE's that have come out.

But then again, I've led a sheltered life....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Is it the accepted practice in your area?

I don't think I've heard of any area recommending that their officials call a block instead of a "T" for flopping. The usual practice seems to be "warn & whack" afaik, especially after the POE's that have come out.

But then again, I've led a sheltered life....

Negative, and I could be wrong about whether it's the accepted practice anywhere. it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong on this board. Won't be the last, either, given how quickly I tend to open my mouth.

[ibOfficial]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While I don't like the idea of calling a phantom foul here, I'm not going to tell an official to go against the accepted practice in his area; no matter how stoopid I think that practice may be.

Let me begin with the cliche: "Everybody makes mistakes; that's why they put erasers on pencils." Then let me follow with another cliche: "Remember that what's right isn't always popular... and what's popular isn't always right." As a young and learning official, I am bombarded by both good insight and bad insight, but all in all, rules need to be upheld. I would hope that an associate of mine would not sit back and allow me to do something that was blatantly wrong. I wonder how this "practice in his area" became "accepted..." I'm pretty sure the rules of basketball are consistent throughout the game. I assume you know this.

Last thing, basketball is 1 contest with 3 teams on the court: The home team, visiting team, and our team. Don't put BS in the game, and don't let your partner.

[Nevadaref]

John W. Adams
National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials, NCAA

Note from the Mens National Coordinator

---

Beginning on Thanksgiving Day and ending late Sunday evening I attended in person and watched all or part of over 20 games. Here are some observations worth sharing with you.

1. I noticed an increase in incorrect blocking calls at or near the basket but NOT in the restricted area. Officials seem to be defaulting to a blocking foul any time there is contact at or near the basket. If the play doesn't involve a secondary defender "under the basket", officiate the play like any basketball play.

2. I witnessed entirely too many "no calls" on illegal contact and crashes at the basket. The #1 Point of Emphasis is Charge/Block/Player Control Fouls at the Basket. When illegal contact occurs we need a whistle on the play. The days of "passing" on these types of plays are behind us.

3. There seems to be an epidemic of "flopping" on both contact in the low post and on drives to the basket. If the "flopper" interferes with the rhythm, speed, balance or quickness of his opponent, call the foul.

...

From Bulletin #2 this season:

1. We are very disappointed with the number of hard contact plays at or near the basket that are going uncalled. One of the three Points of Emphasis this year is charge/block/player control fouls. If illegal contact occurs at or near the basket, you no longer have the option of "passing" on this play. If it is the opinion of the official that the defender "flopped" on the play, that official should use the next opportunity to inform the offending player that if he flops again, the official will call a blocking foul on him. Let's stop motioning to a defender to "get up off the floor". See the play start, develop and finish, and referee the contact.

[Adam]

Interesting, he doesn't state it clearly, but it seems to imply that a flop without contact should be called a block. It seems odd for Adams to be advocating a call that is incorrect by rule, am I reading this incorrectly? Maybe he's only referring to flops that involve contact.

[Kelvin green]

I think he is referring to flops that cause contact.

That being said...MOst flops have some sort of contact, feet tangled, minor tripping, etc... since it was a flop and the person causes a saefty issue (OP) then the minor contact is more than incidental.

Personally this is where I would rather see NFHS adopt the NBA rule on Ts. It is one shot and play from POI. I think officials would be more likely to call a T if the possible swing is not 4 or 5 points...

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by snaqwells

am i reading this incorrectly?

yes!!!!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

.... that official should use the next opportunity to inform the offending player that if he flops again, the official will call a blocking foul on him.

I don't care who said it, this is bogus.